In Via
Planning a trip? Or just on the pilgrimage of daily living? We are the podcast at the intersection of faith and travel, assisting you on the journey to encounter Christ. Hear stories, discover travel tips, and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we’ll show you that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome, Lourdes, Mexico City, or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you - right there in your car, on your run, or in the middle of your workday.
In Via
Navigating the Holy Year: Insights from the 2025 Jubilee
(While we recorded this episode prior to the Holy Father's death, the conversation remains relevant - especially our last reflection on Jubilee events without a Holy Father, so listen until the end!)
The Holy Doors are open, and pilgrims from around the world are discovering the transformative power of Rome's Jubilee Year. In this revealing conversation, Joan and Jenna share their firsthand impressions after multiple visits to the Eternal City during the early months of this extraordinary Holy Year.
Beginning with the intentionality of the pilgrimage path at St. Peter's, listeners will discover how to make crossing through a Holy Door a truly meaningful spiritual experience rather than just a tourist checkbox. Rome itself has undergone remarkable changes in preparation for this historic event. The creation of pedestrian-friendly zones like Piazza Pia, restoration work in major basilicas, and infrastructure improvements throughout the city haven't just made Rome more navigable—they symbolize the spiritual renovation the Jubilee invites in our own lives. What barriers need to be removed in your spiritual life? What paths need to be cleared to better welcome Christ?
Beyond practical advice, this episode explores the deeper meaning of being "Pilgrims of Hope" in a world hungry for authentic spiritual experiences. The special Jubilee events honoring different groups within the Church—from deacons to musicians—reveal how this Holy Year celebrates the diversity and unity of the universal Church. Even if summer crowds seem daunting, learn to view them as a visible sign of the Church's vibrant universality rather than an inconvenience.
Whether you're planning a pilgrimage to Rome or seeking to live the Jubilee spirit from home, this conversation offers practical wisdom, spiritual insights, and a contagious enthusiasm for this sacred time in the life of the Church. The invitation is clear: embrace hope, seek transformation, and discover how crossing thresholds—both physical and spiritual—can lead to profound renewal.
Welcome to In Via, the podcast where we're navigating the pilgrimage of life. We are all in via on the way and we are learning a lot as we go. I'm your host, joan Watson. Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we'll see that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you right there in your car, on your run or in the middle of your workday. In this episode, I chat with my colleague, jenna, about the events of the Jubilee. Jenna's been twice I've been once and we talk about what it's like to be in Rome during this time, the special events happening and the great graces that are being received during this year. Jenna, you were in Rome twice already this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know it's crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean for someone who went to Rome for the first time last year, in 2024, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd never been to Rome in my entire life and then was in Rome three times in a 365-day period.
Speaker 1:I guess that's what the Jubilee does yeah and working for a pilgrimage company?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I'm not complaining.
Speaker 1:So last year you were there to kind of scout stuff out for the Jubilee, yes, and then you went with two different groups, three, three different groups.
Speaker 2:What sort of two different trips with multiple groups on one of the trips yes, yeah, um, and then I was there just are.
Speaker 1:We overlapped a little, yeah, for like two days. Yeah, that was really fun. So jenna was there in january. We overlapped a little bit. I was there in january, then you went back in february yep about a month later okay, so, um, yeah, what? So I guess overall impressions You'd been to Rome before the Jubilee as they were getting ready. What did you think when you arrived? Were you surprised? They were ready.
Speaker 2:Yes and no. I mean this sort of strikes me as a sort of thing where I mean number one it's Italy, so everything is last minute and everything is slower than intended and maybe not exactly according to the original plan, but also it's the sort of event that I don't know that you can ever be ready for, right.
Speaker 1:Like what does it mean to be ready?
Speaker 2:Like, ok, so you finish X, y, z construction project or you have all these things set up like, whether they were ready or not, pilgrims were going to come. So I mean kudos to them for getting some of the bigger projects done, like some of the restoration in St Peter's, the whole new Piazza Pia area down by.
Speaker 1:That's my favorite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the river and Castello San Angelo Like that's really, really good.
Speaker 1:The street from the Taviano Metro stop is now mostly pedestrian only, which is really lovely.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a piazza in front of John Lateran. That was not done when I was there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like half done. Yeah, so they're trying to get it done for the summer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Supposedly, I think it's done. I think I saw some fountain action on Instagram. Oh, okay, so it might be done so you're right, though, like how, and who defines when you're ready.
Speaker 2:You know, is it that all the construction projects are done or that you know how to handle a million people coming in the summer? There's always going to be something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you actually got to meet with Father Francesco. Yes, ahead of the Jubilee. He's in charge. He's just this nice little diocesan priest who's basically in charge of the Jubilee, and Jenna got to meet with him and he may have been a little stressed last year, but you met with him again this year and was he? Did he seem just as stressed? Yes, but also I think it's going well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really well, and I think it's a I mean honestly a huge privilege of the role that I'm in to get to go and have those sorts of conversations, and I mean to sit in the same room as the people who are the ones making the decisions about, like, ok, what events are we doing for this and what are we, how are we going to set this up and what's going to be included when you register, and all those sorts of things, and to get to hear directly from the source. And I also think it's really gratifying for them to talk to us. Like last year, when I had a conversation with this lovely priest who's planning this whole Jubilee and I was saying like, yeah, like, we have a ton of people who are interested and pilgrims are ready to come. He just kind of looked at me. He's like wait, people are actually excited.
Speaker 2:I was like, yeah, people are really excited about the Jubilee and so I think it's good for them to see that all of this planning that has gone into this event for the past however many years has really come into fruition and that there's actual pilgrims who are excited to come and be in Rome for this incredible year. And so, yeah, it's really um, I think that's honestly. Those two meetings that we've had, I've gotten to have with the committee itself have been some of my favorite parts of getting to go and travel to Rome, and both for the inspections and for the pilgrimage itself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just really surreal. I'm glad you know I wanted to do this conversation earlier and I even wanted to do a lot of more prep. You know, more prep work ahead of the Jubilee. But it's kind of fun to talk about it now, looking back at having been, and now the world is talking about the Jubilee in a way that the world wasn't. I distinctly remember sitting down in August of 2023 telling everybody on our team there's this thing coming up in 2025 and we need to talk about it. And people were like, oh okay, I'm like, yeah, we need to talk about it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even last fall, you know, a lot of people hadn't heard about the Jubilee. We were still kind of talking into a void. It seemed like saying like there's this thing coming and now lots of people are talking about it and it's, it's exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's been cool to see how the Jubilee has like, what that trickle down effect has been like, and to see people in their parishes and their schools and their communities embrace the Jubilee as not just like. Okay, yes, the Jubilee is about going on pilgrimage to Rome, but I hear pilgrims of hope and I hear hope get talked about all the time everywhere and I hear, like, what does it mean to be a Jubilee year? Like? That shows up in different social media posts and different I've heard priests talk about it in their homilies and I think that's really beautiful, that it's become a part of the conversation within the church, whether you're in Rome or not. And I think I mean that's the point of the Jubilee year right Is to like help draw us into, like thinking about and praying with these ideas and making it, making it something that it it does impact us and that it is part of, like it should be the center of attention, because that's the point, Right.
Speaker 1:Right. I mean I think I've been going around the country kind of giving some talks on the Jubilee and more and more people it's resonating Like they, they know, like this is for me, even though I may not be going on pilgrimage like there's something for the Jubilee even if I'm not going to Rome, and it is exciting to hear people talking about the virtue of hope and and all of that.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah it it. Pilgrimage is a huge part of it, but it's not the only part of the Jubilee Right. And there's something here for me, even if I can't go to Rome and for the people who can go to Rome, it's even now.
Speaker 2:I mean, we in planning pilgrimages we knew kind of throughout 2024, like no, the only people that were interested in going to the Jubilee last year were priests and group leaders. And they were coming to us because they had heard of they'd either been to previous Jubilees or knew about the Jubilee and they were thinking they had the foresight to say hey, I want to bring my parish, I want to bring my school, I want to bring my group, whoever.
Speaker 2:But a lot of these groups, I mean they didn't have people registered because no one in these parishes even knew what the Jubilee was, but now we're starting to see that those people, those priests that did think ahead, those group leaders that were planning to bring a group, lo and behold, the group is there and they're doing it, and there's people and they're excited, and so I think it's yeah. Just the excitement around pilgrimage to Rome in particular has been really, really beautiful, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's interesting to see, like the fall trips even that we're having, maybe there are more people signing up earlier on because they know about it, whereas the early trips we had to kind of tell people no, you want to do this.
Speaker 1:I can promise you this is going to be worth it. Yeah, um, so one of your trips was a group of college students and then the other trip was a kind of combo. Um, you know, what would? What was your experience with, especially maybe the girls from the from college? Like, did they, did they embrace it? What'd they think? Like, did you have any moments?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that pilgrimage was super interesting because it was a choir and they were singing in all these beautiful churches around Rome and it was right at the beginning of the Jubilee year. So we got to Rome, I think, like the, I got there the 4th and they got there the 5th of January or something like that, so it had been less than three weeks since the Holy Doors had been open.
Speaker 1:I mean St Paul's at the Walls wasn't even open yet it, since the holy doors had been open. I mean St Paul's at the Walls wasn't even open yet it opened while you were there.
Speaker 2:Yeah and we were literally at St Paul's at the Walls the day after the holy door opened, which is crazy and also so because of how big Epiphany is, just as a holiday in Europe and in Italy. So we showed up and it's still like Christmas season and then that ended and Epiphany happened and then people went back to work and then it was just all very new to everybody still, and I think it was new but in a really exciting way, in a way of like we're curious about this, like what is this thing and what can we know more? And so I think for that group and for those pilgrims, they, to be very honest, a lot of them were like I don't know what this is Like. What is the Jubilee? Like I don't know what this is Like. What is the Jubilee? Like I am here because I'm on a with my, I'm with my choir and we came to sing Jubilee or not, but like, what is this?
Speaker 2:And it wasn't any sort of antagonistic feelings, it was just curiosity, and I think that turned into a lot of really great conversations about what the Holy doors are and how that's related to the Jubilee and what indulgences and all of these different things, and by the end of the week they were all so excited about it by the time we got to the Holy Door at St Peter's Basilica, which was the last of the four major basilicas that we got to visit.
Speaker 2:It was so incredible and they got it and they understood it and they felt like they had embraced the spirit of Jubilee pilgrimage. And all of them, at the end of the week, talked about how the Holy Doors and how the Jubilee had made it so much better than they were even anticipating, because they'd gone into this pilgrimage to Italy with no expectation that the Jubilee would do anything for them, but then they were able to live it and be there and witness this event in the universal church and that just made their trip even better. And so I think that was really cool to witness, just going from just like the general sentiment being like I have no idea what this is, but tell me more to wow. This is beautiful and I'm so happy I'm here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's neat because we both were there kind of like, okay, let's see what happens Like there were a lot of questions that even we had about how registration to the doors are going to work and since we were there in kind of a lower season, the registration didn't matter. But we didn't know that right, and I loved the pilgrimage to the door at St Peter's and how they've set that up that you actually like pilgrimage they give you a cross, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you pilgrimage up Via Congelazione with a cross and, like you get the right away to walk and to pray and they have a prayer resource that you can pray. And the girls in the choir sang the way up, which I think is incredible. Like, what was that like?
Speaker 2:we were um on the pope's instagram at like a minute one minute and 30 something seconds buried in something it's like a two second clip. But yeah, like that was really, really beautiful. And I think the St Peter's Holy door it's just so interesting, because the St Peter's Holy door you have to register for. I mean you have to register for all of them, but you register for and they check your registration and they give you this cross and they give you these prayers and it's beautiful and they have this whole section of the street just for pilgrims. And so as we were, as the choir was moving up this street and singing the litany of the saints and really approaching the whole, it felt sacred and it felt special and it felt set apart and it felt like it was a really, just a really grace-filled moment. And I think that's the um. Yeah, that's something that I think the Jubilee offers and I think one of our group leaders actually recently said this. But I think doing the holy doors and doing the Jubilee as pilgrimage and pausing to pray and pausing to participate in that is it's a way to witness that grace in an even more powerful way. Right, like those graces are there, but how often, if just like moving through our lives, it's like, okay, like here I am, like I'm just walking through the holy door at St Peter's, but if we don't stop to really meditate and pray and look around and witness the ways that the Lord is at work, and so I think that was something that was just a very, it was a highlight of that pilgrimage.
Speaker 2:I'm for all of those girls in particular and um, it's interesting though, because so this was very, very early on and so that was St Peter's, and you register and it's all this very formal process, and then you go to St Paul outside the walls, or to St Mary Major and to St John's Ladder and anyone can just stroll right through the Holy Door and there's I mean, there's people there, but it's not. There's no formalized process behind it, which in some senses is great, because you get the like there's less people, you can take your time, you can like that's honestly a huge perk, and that also like those are holy doors too, saint. There's this. I think a lot of the, the conceptions can sometimes be like oh, saint peter's, basilica's, holy doors better holy doors, like no, it's just a different holy door but anyway.
Speaker 2:so I came back from that and I was like joni we need to do something about these other holy doors, because that moment at St Peter's is so marked with that prayerful atmosphere that like we wanted to see that present in the other ones as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was so glad you said that because it was our. Our chaplains stopped our pilgrims beforehand and because most people are just using the door as an entrance to the Mary Major, right, yeah, like you said, like it's just the entrance door and in St Peter's it is too, but because of that pilgrimage experience it's really set apart and so our chaplains had to really like, stop the people and be like, okay, wait, this is the holy door, let's say a prayer together. So when you have that idea of let's, you know, take this idea from St Peter's, where you get this little brochure and you have a litany of saints and you have a reading from St Paul and you have really intentional prayer for the Pope. It was really fun to then think of how we could create that for these other doors, because each of them have a place where you can stand.
Speaker 1:You can't walk up via Controliant Santa, right, like you can't. But like St Paul's on the walls is a perfect example, you can gather at that beautiful statue of St Paul in the beautiful courtyard and read from Paul, and I wrote a little litany of St Paul and you know, writing a litany of Our Lady, like taking from that litany of Loretto for St Mary Major and writing the, you know, invoking the different apostles for John Lateran who line the nave. Like each of the basilicas have such a particular character that it's easy to make a little pilgrimage prayer, prayer service in a sense, leading up to those holy doors, and so we have those in the Verso booklets. If you go on pilgrimage with Verso you get a pilgrimage booklet before you leave.
Speaker 2:It's really a little book, it's a spiral bound book, and so we've put those, those prayers both the prayers that the Vatican has put together for the pilgrimage to St Peter's but then the ones we wrote for these other three holy doors. Seriously, not that we did stop and pray before them and all of that, but to have an intentional, just moment of pausing and gathering yourselves as a group and praying along together was so powerful and we prayed beforehand and then we went through the doors and afterwards we gathered and we prayed together again and it was really, really beautiful to see that. Yeah, I think like the one of the most common questions I hear is like OK, so what's so special about a door Like?
Speaker 1:what is?
Speaker 2:it and you're like you just walk through it. And it's like well, no, there's more to it, and you, by taking those steps to make it a prayerful pilgrimage, it was really beautiful to witness the impact that that had on our pilgrims.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great example of in on a pilgrimage, everything can impact you and there's grace everywhere. And yeah, you could be prepared. Zero, right, you could not know what you were about to see, you could not know what you're about to expect. Like you could have zero expectations, zero intentions and just receive a ton of grace. But if you are prepared and you do enter in, god can work even greater things. And so it's a perfect example of, yeah, the Holy door can really impact you, no matter what. The like walking through this threshold, new beginning. Like you could have an incredibly moving experience. But if you do a little preparation or you prepare your heart spiritually and reflect, god can do even more with it. You know, yeah, so it's just it's. I think it's a great example of that. Yeah, for sure, yeah, um. So when we went, it was kind of off season, which was really nice, and it I don't want to brag to people who are going to be going this summer. I mean, we're going this summer too.
Speaker 2:We will be there this summer. It'll be great.
Speaker 1:Um, but you know, I think it was just even though it was the off time and so we maybe had a little bit more ability to pray. I saw a shot of via control at Sione and the pilgrim path that was just like packed with people a couple of weeks ago. Like we walked up, like actually my husband and I walked up pretty much by ourselves in the pilgrim path and like we just kind of did it ourselves and it was a great experience, but now it was just like packed with this huge group.
Speaker 1:So people going now probably will face a little bit more crowds in the summer. But even though we didn't have the crowds, I still felt like there was this feeling of camaraderie.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, in pilgrimage.
Speaker 1:And I think that's going to even be heightened this summer. Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's clearly something happening, Like you go to Rome and the Jubilee just like smacks you in the face. It's everywhere it's in an yes, it's on the billboards and it's in the signs and you hear people talking about it and all sorts of different places and yeah, it's like it's everywhere, but it also it's I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's like it's everywhere, but it also it's I don't know. It's like kind of that. There's just like a buzz in the air. There's something that people are excited about and people are happy to be there, and then, as you get to closer to where these major basilicas are, that just intensifies and it's really beautiful and I think it's yeah, I don't know just seeing people get excited about something and rallying around an idea and a mission, and that's it's just really, really nice to see and that in itself is rejuvenating, right. I think it takes pilgrimage to Rome, which is beautiful no matter what, and it adds this additional layer to it, and I think it's a way that the city has come together and it's a way that the people from around the world it's a common experience they've now shared when they're there, and it's yeah it's really exciting the camaraderie.
Speaker 1:You know, I think it's a good reminder to us that if you are going to Rome and it's crowded, and just to see that as not a curse but a blessing that look at all these people are that are coming, I'm part of something bigger. I've been in a lot of interviews. I've been telling people like, think about it. Like Christmas mass, you can either like curse the people that are in your pew because you've never seen them before and they're showing up for Christmas and you're like, dang it. You took my pew and my parking space and who are you? Well, that would be one way to react, right. Another reaction would be we're so glad you're here, right, we'd love to see you next week too, right. And so to say like, yeah, is it going to be crowded? But I see so many people are like, yeah, it's going to be crowded and miserable. Well, why don't we see this as actually a grace that people are coming and that we're walking this together, like we're all the pilgrims together?
Speaker 2:And something that we've been telling our pilgrims is that going to Rome during a Jubilee year it's different than a pilgrimage to Rome, right Like. Going to Rome not during the Jubilee is a totally different experience and that has its own like. It's its own thing, right. There's both pros and cons to that and there's things that you're going to get to do not in the Jubilee that you're not going to get to, right Like. You can't do everything during a Jubilee pilgrimage that you could if it wasn't the Jubilee.
Speaker 2:But vice versa is true, right Like if you go on pilgrimage to Rome two years from now, like no holy door, and so I think it's understanding that this is not just me going to Rome right it's not just your kind of standard run-of-the-mill Roman pilgrimage, but it's a Jubilee Roman pilgrimage and so what comes with that is, yes, the holy doors and all of that sort of stuff, but also comes with it that's the crowds and the people and the just different atmosphere in the city, and that's part of the Jubilee itself and that's an exciting thing. And yeah, like you said it should, it's all depends on your mindset. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have to say, like thinking about Rome on a, you know, for a Jubilee year. There are certain pieces of art in Rome, there are certain piazzas in Rome that we might not think of it now, but like the fountains in Piazza Navona are connected to a Jubilee year and like we've kind of lost that in history unless you're an art historian. But there's so much in Rome that's like, oh, this was done for the Jubilee, or the Pope commissioned with for the Jubilee, and now to be able to say like, oh, that piazza pia, which is at the end of the incantazione, you know, in 200 years people are just going to take that place for granted, but somebody's going to say, you know what, this was built for the jubilee of 2025 and be like that was our jubilee right.
Speaker 1:That's the time when we were there good, I have to say, I think that's my favorite, uh, improvement in rome, and it's at the end of the incantazione usually there were there before. There was this really busy street before you get to Castel San Angelo. So if you walked from the Bridge of the Angels and Castel San Angelo and walk to St Peter's, you have to cross a street, and so you have to stop at a stoplight. It was really busy One time. It was so crowded we couldn't cross there, and so we tried to cross somewhere else. We ended up walking like three miles out of our way, no joke, because there were no crosswalks and it was crazy. And so to have that now, piazza pia pedestrian, only you can walk from castel san angelo all the way to st peter's without getting hit by a car, and I mean you have to cross one little street. But it's such an improvement. I just like stood there and marveled at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just the best and I think that I mean in some way, right the j, the Jubilee calls on Rome and it calls on the church to think about those things in a bigger way. Right, like if there was no Jubilee, would they have ever thought to do that?
Speaker 1:until I don't know, too many people got killed and then be like, oh, maybe this is a problem.
Speaker 2:But and I think you can think about that both from a like construction, improvement standpoint but also it's a time for us to reflect as a church on where we are as a church and what is the Lord calling us to be and what should we focus on. And a lot of that comes from the guidance of the Holy Father and his theme of pilgrims of hope and, okay, like as the Holy Father wants us to, pray about hope and talk about hope and think about hope, and so let's do it and let's embrace that as a church, and I think that's what we have.
Speaker 1:The Jubilee is a reason for that to be the case. Yeah, what improvements do we need to make? Yeah, right, like Rome made improvements to the infrastructure, what improvements do I need to make in my life? What improvements do we need to make in the church? Yeah, how do we need to talk about things differently, exactly, and so, like, what is the Jubilee calling us to? Beyond? You know what infrastructure, but then what like spiritual?
Speaker 2:growth and kick in the seat of the pants to eat Exactly. Yeah, I love that, yeah. So, speaking of hope, you wrote a book about hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I talked to him a little bit about it. Well, did we talk about it in the first episode? I don't remember.
Speaker 2:I don't know, the first episode was a long time ago, um, but you wrote this book and it was about hope and it was using the Holy door at St Peter's Basilica, and it was about hope. And then you got to go and see the Holy door at St Peter's Basilica, which you had seen. But you then got to walk through the Holy door at St Peter's Basilica which you'd never had the chance to do before this year. What was that like? Like, I guess, like seriously like getting you. So you got to Rome and your very first day there, that afternoon, you and your husband went and did the St Peter's Holy door very first day there that afternoon you and your husband went and did the St Peter's holy door.
Speaker 1:How surreal was that? It was pretty surreal. It was funny because somebody had told me that I had walked through it in the, the, the extraordinary Jubilee year of mercy. Yeah, I have no recollection of it, I don't think I did, but then even that's a sign right, that like I didn't, didn't think about it, I did it without thinking I didn't, it didn't impact me, so I don't think I did.
Speaker 1:I wrote in the book that I didn't walk through it, so I guess I lied if I walked through it, but I have no recollection of walking through it and so to walk through it and to and you know you're kind of, you're not pushed through it, but there are a lot of people and so you don't get to just scenes to write the book. But it was surreal. I even seeing the pope open the door at Christmas Eve. Actually we were sitting in my parents living room and I was watching the pope open the door and I was just like that's my door, like it's mine, like I felt so protective of it and I was like yeah, no, no, it's not, it's not your door, it's my door really really, really small writing at the very bottom corner it says Joan Watson.
Speaker 2:It does, yeah it says copyright Joan Watson.
Speaker 1:But so you had to walk through it. And now to hear people who have walked through it and because they've read the book, I had somebody Instagram message me she was reading the book while she was inside St Peter's, like she had walked through the door and then she was reading portions of the book, standing in there for like 20 minutes and the guard was kind of looking at her like what are you doing? But that meant so much to me that, like her passing through the door was a different experience because she read my book. Like that was very humbling. But yeah, I can't wait to do it again. Actually, because there are certain panels that I wanted to look at and I didn't remember because I was just so overcome with the fact that this door was here and I was walking through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's real. It's a culmination of a lot of hard work and prayer and all of that going into that, and I think it also. I think that's so just a beautiful image to think of someone actually reading your book while in St Peter's, and I think it also speaks to just what we were saying earlier about if you choose to intentionally reflect on these things and intentionally pray with them, then you're going to get so much out of it and it's going to impact you in ways that you otherwise wouldn't have imagined. And I think yeah, I think that's what's really cool about your book is that it's not just like a history lesson on the holy door, but it invites you into that experience of the Holy Door and makes it more prayerful and makes it more spiritually enriching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you, yeah, because I purposely didn't want to write a book that would just be like a stagnant history of something or even like a art description of something, or even like an art description. I wanted it to be a way that, regardless of whether you go to St Peter's, regardless of whether you ever see the door in person, what is this door calling you to do? It's not just about this door is here and it was made in 1949. Who cares? What matters is what is Christ calling me, what does he want from me? I was really edified the group you went with in February, one of the group leaders that really meant a lot too that it could be used to prepare someone for pilgrimage. Um, so when she said that, like her, young adults recognize panels from the door, and we're like hey this is our panel.
Speaker 1:Um, that that was. That was awesome, like I just love our good group leaders who do a great job preparing their people and we work with so many of them and it's great.
Speaker 1:I'm really grateful, really grateful. Um, that trip that you were in in February was a little different than the trips we went in January, because when we went in January it was just jubilee year and it was great and we got to, you know, go through the holy doors and experience Rome in the jubilee year. But when you went in February, there was actually a special jubilee event going on yes, the jubilee for deacons, and so can you? Talk a little bit about what. Does it mean that there's this jubilee of deacons?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think, um, I think people, what I've noticed in just like talking to people is, after they, the first question, after like wait, what is the jubilee? And they get that figured out and they figure out the holy doors, but then it's like, wait, so there's these jubilee events and what does that mean? But then if I go, if I'm not going for an event, is that still a Jubilee pilgrimage and is the event like? Is it all year and like, but so I think the whole year is the Jubilee year, but there are specific dates within that calendar year that the church has decided to celebrate and recognize and, uh, focus on different groups within the church. There's all sorts of different events, whether it's deacons or priests or educators or musicians or you name it.
Speaker 1:There's probably a Jubilee Musical bands.
Speaker 2:I really wanted to go for musical bands, I would go for that one in a heartbeat.
Speaker 1:They're going to have like concerts in the piazzas for musical bands? Okay, I'm getting ahead of ourselves. Okay, keep talking.
Speaker 2:But I think what number one? What I think is beautiful about that is that, just as the Jubilee year is a year for the church to stop and celebrate and focus on things that are important for us to focus on that, the church is calling out and saying hey, we care about you. We care about you, deacons, we want to recognize the contributions that you make to our church, family and people with disabilities. We care about you, we value you as part of this community and we want to celebrate that. And catechists we care about you. We value you as part of this community and we want to celebrate that. And catechists we care about you and we value you and we want to celebrate that. And I think that's beautiful. And I think that, in a place where there's so many people who, for one reason or another, feel like maybe the church doesn't care about me, Maybe I do all of these things and who cares right?
Speaker 1:And whether, that's, they don't even see me. Yes, they all of these things, and they who cares Right?
Speaker 2:And whether that they don't even see me. Yes, they don't even see me and I think there's a lot of reasons that that might be the case. And yes, there are people that the church has overlooked over the years, and even people who are like in these ministries, like deacons right, like they have a parish or a different thing, a ministry that they're showing up to and they're giving to the church, and it's still can like how many times did people go home at the end of the day? And they're like, okay, so like I did the thing, but like now what?
Speaker 1:and so what does?
Speaker 2:anyone care and?
Speaker 2:I think that was a just being at the Jubilee of Deacons was such a beautiful witness to like we care, yeah, and Deacons are great and that's awesome and you matter and you contribute so much and we want to give you your moment here because you're that special to our church and that was really, really beautiful to witness. And so the pilgrimage there were like 25 of us and there were only six deacons of that 25. And so it was cool to see those deacons kind of became like the mini celebrities of the group, right. Like they got to go and sit up front at all the events and they had special things that were just for them and they got to. They felt like they were so important and so valued and to be affirmed by these other random pilgrims from the other groups across the country that they'd never met and they were like, hey, wow, these people care about me and I get to be here in Rome and Rome is opening its arms to me as a deacon. That was really, really beautiful to witness.
Speaker 1:So what kind of events, uh, did they go to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they had a variety of different things. Um, they had some catechesis sessions, and so those were broken up by language and they were in different churches, kind of around the Vatican area. So that's one of the things they went to. They had a vigil prayer service where all of the deacons renewed their diaconal promises, which was beautiful, and so they had different deacons give witness talks from around the world in different languages, and, yeah, everything was multilingual at that point, which was really cool to see all that come together.
Speaker 2:And then the highlight of the weekend was mass in St Peter's Basilica, not in the square, but in the basilica, where, with all of these deacons that were there, and then there were 13, 14, maybe that's the total, wrong number ordinations to the diaconate there, which was, yeah, that was really special. And it was also so interesting because this Jubilee happened just after the Holy Father had gone into the hospital, and so everyone was like, oh, we're going to have mass with the Holy Father, and the Holy Father is going to ordain these people deacons and it's. And then Pope Francis wasn't there. And I think that was really interesting because I think there was this initial moment of hesitation, of like wait a second, like no Pope, is this still going to happen?
Speaker 1:Are we still going to?
Speaker 2:do this? Does it still matter? And then everyone was like wait a second, yeah, like we're going to make it happen and it's going to be beautiful. And Pope Francis might not have been physically present, but his homily was read and like he was there in spirit and it was a really beautiful moment of prayer for the Holy Father and also just to come together and in spite of that, still all of those graces were still super present and super. I think it was just a really impactful experience on everyone.
Speaker 1:I think it's interesting.
Speaker 1:I heard from some people like, oh, the Jubilee is going to be ruined if Pope Francis dies. And like, first of all, that's a lot of pressure to put on this guy, right, don't die, you'll ruin the Jubilee, um, but I think it's actually a really good learning or teaching experience or teaching lesson, whatever I want to say, because the Jubilee is not about the Pope Right, and going to Rome isn't about the Pope right. We I think so many people want to go to Rome because they want to see the Pope, as if that's the point, like he's a superstar, celebrity and I mean, yeah, he's a rock star, whatever, but that's not been the case of the church during the centuries. Like the Jubilee is not about the Pope, the Jubilee is about going to St Peter's, praying at the tomb of St Peter, receiving the sacraments of confession and Holy Communion, like whether the Pope's there or not.
Speaker 1:In in 1350, the second Jubilee year, the Pope didn't even live in Rome. And they they were like, hey, pope, call another Jubilee in 1350 so that you'll come home to Rome. And he's like, yeah, I'll call a Jubilee year, but I'm not coming back, right.
Speaker 1:So, our second Jubilee, the Pope wasn't even there either, and so I think it's a good reminder to us of where our faith actually isn't in the man the Pope Like. He's great, he's a leader. We love him. He's a successor to St Peter, but that's not where I've put my faith. I've put my faith in Christ Right, and so it's a beautiful reminder to us. I think that do we want the Pope healthy and good and holy and wonderful? Absolutely, but he's not the be all and end all of the Jubilee year or even a pilgrimage to Rome, yeah, and I think it was beautiful to witness.
Speaker 2:I mean, just, I think the Jubilee and like pilgrimage does this and Rome does this, but the particular Jubilee, pilgrimage, it's the universal church. Right, and you are, we are there as the body of Christ. In that case, we were there as the body of Christ to celebrate and recognize these deacons, but we are there together as the body of Christ to be on pilgrimage and to be there for the Jubilee and to receive these graces as a church family. And I think, yes, the Pope is amazing and wonderful and when he's part of that, that's incredible. But it was, I think I was really proud is the wrong word, but I was really glad and grateful that our pilgrims were able to embrace that mindset that this is still something really special, regardless of whether he's there or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, um, so you had some people and you kind of mentioned this. You had some people in the group that weren't deacons, um, and they, you know, the deacons were kind of the rock stars of the group, which I think is really dear. That's awesome, because so many times I think deacons are those unsung heroes in the church, right service. But almost every permanent deacon I know like totally has this humble attitude of service and they just want to serve the church and so often what they do completely gets unnoticed by most of us, right, um? So I love the fact that they were the star of the show.
Speaker 1:But can you like, let's say, I want to go on pilgrimage and I'm going to be there for the jubilee musical bands, but I'm not in a musical band. Or I want to go for the jubilee I just happen to be there for the j Jubilee of musical bands, but I'm not in a musical band. Or I want to go for the Jubilee I just happened to be there for the Jubilee of consecrated life, but I'm not obviously a consecrated virgin Um, did the people who go, who went for the Jubilee for deacons and weren't deacons, do they still? I hate to use the phrase, but get something out of it, even though they weren't deacons.
Speaker 2:Absolutely For sure.
Speaker 2:And I think yeah, there's something about number one, I think. If the church has decided that we are going to have a Jubilee of insert blank here, that means that some people in the church have decided that this community is contributing something to the church and has something to teach us. And so if you're there for the Jubilee of prisoners or you're there for the Jubilee of Marian spirituality or the Jubilee of consecrated life or whatever it is, and you don't feel like you fit into any of those categories, it's not like a closed off event, it's anyone can go and anyone can be a part of it, and everyone is invited into celebrating and learning about what role this group of people plays in the church and how do they contribute to the church. And I think that, for in the case of the Jubilee of Deacons, it was a yeah, it was beautiful to witness all of these non-deacons, these lay people that were there just embrace deacons as something to be celebrated and to just honestly to have the opportunity to participate in an event in Rome of the universal church is unique and beautiful in and of itself.
Speaker 2:Right Like you could be there, whether you're there for a Jubilee event or if it's a canonization or it's some sort of thing to witness the, the capital C church on display in full form, drawing people in, drawing people together. That's just such a powerful experience. And then saying, okay, like, so it's deacons today and tomorrow it's teenagers and next week it's bishops or whoever it might be that great, like, we're going to celebrate you. And part of being part of the church is leaning into the things that are the church and the people that are the church and getting to know them and being a part of that anyway, yeah, I love that point of like asking yourself okay, like I'm here, what do these people have to teach me?
Speaker 1:or what is their role and what is their charism and vocation have to teach me, even if that's not me, right, because the church is a body of many parts right and thank goodness, we're not all ears or noses or toes, right, because that would be a weird body, right? And so how can I receive the graces of of encountering these other parts? Um, and what do they have to teach me? I think that's really powerful. So go Jubilee, go Jubilee, yeah.
Speaker 2:Any last thoughts? Go on pilgrimage.
Speaker 1:And that's the other thing is that even if you can't go to rome, there are graces attached to going on pilgrimage here in the states too. So you know, intentionally make a pilgrimage to your cathedral, or we talked about this, I think, and I get everything mixed up. I think we talked about that in the first episode of this, this podcast about jubilee, about the jubilee year, but um, but yeah, so go on pilgrimage somewhere yeah we'd love for you to go on pilgrimage with Verso.
Speaker 2:But even if you can't do that, Go on pilgrimage and if you can't even go on pilgrimage, then pray about hope, that's right. Think about hope and embrace that, because that's what the church is doing this year and it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sounds great. Well, thanks for chatting with me, jenna, of course, thanks for having me. Thanks, listeners, for listening and remember to subscribe and share and all those good things, and stay tuned for our next episode, as we Ministries can make that dream a reality. Visit versoministriescom slash jubilee for all our jubilee dates and for more information.
