In Via
Planning a trip? Or just on the pilgrimage of daily living? We are the podcast at the intersection of faith and travel, assisting you on the journey to encounter Christ. Hear stories, discover travel tips, and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we’ll show you that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome, Lourdes, Mexico City, or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you - right there in your car, on your run, or in the middle of your workday.
In Via
Pilgrims of Hope: Understanding the Jubilee Year
The interns take over the podcast! In this special first episode of In Via, Verso Ministries' interns Olivia and John turn the tables on Joan to interview her about the Jubilee Year.
Step into the sacred history of the Jubilee with us as we delve into this 725 year-old tradition. In this episode, we're not just exploring the significance of the Jubilee; we're delving into what it means to be a pilgrim of hope, embracing the radical mercy of God and how it unfolds in our lives today.
Listeners will learn how this special time offers a dual opportunity for spiritual renewal and communal connection through pilgrimage. With personal anecdotes and historical insights, we unpack the journey to holy doors and how they symbolize an entrance into a deeper relationship with God. This episode empowers you to find ways to observe the Jubilee in your own life, inspiring actions of mercy that reach beyond borders.
Whether you're planning a trip to Rome or seeking ways to embody hope and grace right in your community, this conversation encourages everyone to embrace their role as pilgrims. Ultimately, we want you to discover how to carry the spirit of Jubilee into your everyday journey. As we look forward to our new season, join us! Subscribe, share your thoughts, and be part of our growing community seeking deeper connections through faith and fellowship. We can't wait for you to tune in!
Welcome to In Via, the podcast where we're navigating the pilgrimage of life. We are all in via on the way and we are learning a lot as we go. I'm your host, joan Watson. Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we'll see that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you right there in your car, on your run or in the middle of your workday. To kick off this second season of Envia, two of our interns at Verso Ministries are taking over the podcast Olivia and Josh, both students at the University of Notre Dame, are interviewing me today as we begin this second season to look at all things Jubilee.
Speaker 2:Hi Joni, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1:I am great. I'm excited to talk about the Jubilee.
Speaker 2:We are excited to hear about it.
Speaker 1:So I'm here with two interns, josh and Olivia. They're taking over the podcast to ask questions about the Jubilee, although you probably know more than most people.
Speaker 3:I've certainly heard a little bit about it just from being on the campus of Notre Dame. We certainly talk in the Catholic circles about it. I'm not sure about you, Olivia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agreed, I think you hear a little bit about it at Notre Dame, but it wasn't until I started working here at Verso till I really got a little bit of insight into what the Jubilee is. But you know more than both of us combined, probably. So we're very excited to talk to you about this. Do you want to give us a brief overview of what the Jubilee is and kind of when it started?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that's one of those big questions that people want like a 30 second answer to and it's like, okay, do I start with the old Testament. Like how far back do we want to go?
Speaker 2:Let's go all the way back, why not?
Speaker 1:So the Jubilee actually started in Leviticus 25, when God asked the Israelites to observe. First he says you know, could you observe a sabbatical year? Well, he didn't say could? Like he wasn't asking them, he was telling them. And he said I want you, every seven years, to observe this sabbatical year, this year of rest. I mean we think of sabbaticals as like professors going on sabbaticals where they've been teaching a long time and now they get a break. But it's actually, it's from the you know, the Sabbath, the idea of Sabbath. And so every seven years, israelites were supposed to take a break, they were supposed to rest and the land was even supposed to rest. You can see in the Old Testament God talks about the land needs its Sabbath, and so I think that's just a really beautiful reminder to us of the need for rest and the trust in the Lord that if the land is going to rest every seven years, that means I need to trust that he's going to provide for me when I'm not tilling and keeping and reaping and all that good stuff, right? So every seven years. So they were supposed to observe this sabbatical year and we find out they actually don't. They don't obey the Lord and that's one of the reasons for the exiles into Assyria and Babylon. But every seven sabbatical years they were supposed to observe a jubilee year.
Speaker 1:So in Leviticus we see this direction to have a jubilee year of celebration, and it really was a jubilee year of mercy. And so the people were supposed to learn mercy by showing mercy. So it was radical. I mean, debts were forgiven, prisoners were freed. If you had gotten land from somebody, you were returning that land back to its original owners. Like this was radical mercy every 50 years. But it was of course a physical reminder of the spiritual mercy that God wanted to show right. So it's not about release from bondage for physical slavery, but release from the bondage of sin.
Speaker 1:So in Isaiah we see Isaiah prophesying that the Messiah was going to bring the Jubilee, was going to bring this year of favor, and that's one of the messianic prophecies in Isaiah that Christ fulfills. So we go to Luke 4, and in Luke 4, christ goes into the synagogue, he opens the scroll and he reads this prophecy from Isaiah that talks about a year of favor, and so we might glance over that and not really realize what a year of favor is, but the Jews would have realized that's a jubilee. So the jubilee that started in the Old Testament Testament that was supposed to be a physical reminder of the Lord's mercy is really restored and fulfilled in Christ, who comes to bring the real mercy, who comes to bring the real freedom and the real Jubilee. So that's really an unleashing of grace through indulgences, through certain acts of mercy that then are given great grace, acts of pilgrimage. And so Boniface VIII calls this first Christian year of jubilee, hearkening back to that messianic j Jubilee. And now we celebrate them every 25 years in the church.
Speaker 1:Wow, so there's your, not 30, second answer.
Speaker 2:That's very interesting.
Speaker 3:I think it's so great though, to have you know you can have time kind of in the short term on, you know, every Sunday to call, call back, to rest, but to have those longer periods of time. I think it's incredibly helpful and I love kind of the focus the focus in on a virtue or the focus in on something of the sort, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like we're supposed to be focusing on hope this year, and so it kind of redirects us in that year of favor to hope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know that's so interesting. I might go on a little bit of a tangent here, so stop me, but I'm an Italian student here at Notre Dame and it's so interesting that you mentioned Pope Boniface starting the first Jubilee, because that was around the time when Dante was writing his Inferno and some might even call him like one of the first pilgrims. So that's just such a little interesting tidbit of history to me that you bring that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we see in Dante's Divine Comedy his reference to the Jubilee his reference like he.
Speaker 1:Some people think he was writing this, like you said, as the first pilgrim, um, and so every Jubilee kind of has a little you know little bit of history. But I think that idea that Dante being the pilgrim and writing the divine comedy, within the Jubilee he makes certain references like to the veil of Veronica on display at St Peter's in, I think, in paradise, I think, and it's just, yeah, it's really neat to kind of place it within the broader cultural history as well.
Speaker 2:So interesting. So what does a typical Jubilee look like today? Like when a pilgrim gets to Rome for this Jubilee. What does one do?
Speaker 1:So the Jubilee years in Rome really are times of pilgrimage. Obviously that's how the Jubilee started, was pilgrims came to Rome. It's kind of neat. Actually, Boniface VIII called the Jubilee in response to a lay initiative, so it wasn't actually really his idea. We don't think. We think it was actually the idea of the laity to go on pilgrimage. They were always going on pilgrimage. I mean, they had been going on pilgrimage for 1,300 years.
Speaker 1:But in 1299, we see this influx of pilgrims who are really seeking the Lord's favor, who are seeking the Lord's mercy, and Boniface is like whoa, what are all these people doing here? And there's an idea that the people actually thought there would be this kind of special jubilee, which is kind of neat. So it was really a lay initiative because they knew they needed the Lord's mercy and they needed the Lord's help. And so that's still a hallmark of the Jubilee right, Going to Rome. You don't have to go to Rome. There are other ways to receive the graces of this year, even if you can't go to Rome.
Speaker 1:But really the Jubilee really is centered in Rome in a special way. And so you make pilgrimage, particularly to the tombs of the apostles Peter and Paul, so you go to the basilicas of Peter and Paul. And then I think one thing we can't forget is that you are called to make a good confession and receive the sacraments, because that's where we find the Lord's mercy. So it's not about all these like works that I do, but that this pilgrimage is to this place of prayer where I pray for the Holy Father and I pray at the tomb of Peter and I receive the sacraments. Like that, we can't, we can't forget that. We can't, you know, underestimate the power of the sacrament of confession and communion.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think it's incredibly helpful to be reminded of that, because it's not just a matter of doing certain things, but the transformation of your heart. As you're speaking to Um. Yeah, I remember back um you mentioned every 25 years is a Jubilee. I remember back. I want to say there was one. I don't remember the last. I wasn't alive in 2000, but but I do remember there was one back, maybe 10 years ago or so 2016 um, yeah, I wonder so. Are there sometimes special jubilees or of something of the sort?
Speaker 1:yeah. So thanks for thanks for making me feel old, josh that you weren't alive.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just teasing.
Speaker 1:Um, I actually really love to work with you guys because it reminds me that yeah, I mean, it reminds me of my age and wisdom.
Speaker 3:But, um, but it also keeps me young.
Speaker 1:It keeps me young. Um so 2000 was the last ordinary Jubilee. John Paul II really saw his pontificate as bringing the church into the new millennium, and so it was called the Great Jubilee of 2000. And it was. There were just really powerful moments in that year, but Pope Francis called an extraordinary year of Jubilee, and so the popes can call extraordinary Jubilees whenever they want. So it's funny because when I've been talking lately about the Jubilee to people and I say every 25 years, every 25 years, they're like wait a minute, I thought there was one in 2016. So 2016 was a year of mercy and I think it was just really Francis looking around and seeing what we need, kind of like the year of hope. I think Francis looked around and decided we needed some hope but, he called this extraordinary year.
Speaker 1:Another example is in 1983, John Paul II called an extraordinary jubilee because of the anniversary of the incarnation. The thought is that in 2033, there will be another extraordinary jubilee because it'll be kind of traditionally the 2000th anniversary of the death of our Lord. So the thought is that 2033 might be an extraordinary, but so different popes will call extraordinary. Is that 2033 might be an extraordinary, but so different popes will call extraordinary, like extra, extra grace. We need extra grace. So you remember that one. So yeah, it was about 10 years ago.
Speaker 3:That's super great to know. I mean, I I can only remember vaguely so to be a little bit older now and see sort of all the the bustle around the Jubilee, especially getting to be around a college campus and within a company here at Verso that's kind of specializes in travel and seeing a lot of people travel. It's exciting to see people so eager about the Jubilee year, but I know myself I won't be able to travel to Rome this year. I won't be able to visit or kind of see the festivities. So what would that look like for those who might not be able to travel?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think it is. It is important for us to realize that this Jubilee is for everyone and not to just kind of disregard it if you can't. There's been a lot of talk about Rome, right, and this special podcast season is going to focus on Rome and the Jubilee, obviously, but everybody's called to the Jubilee and everybody can participate in the Jubilee, and there's a few. There's a document that Pope Francis wrote and then out of that document it's called hope does not disappoint. It's really beautiful. Out of that document came a decree on various indulgences, different graces.
Speaker 1:Some people get worried about that word indulgence, but it's just different ways that the Lord is going to give us grace, different ways we can get grace this year, and one of my favorites is to make a pilgrimage to Christ present in our neighbor, that Christ is present in the homebound, christ is present in the sick, he's present in the imprisoned, and so you actually don't have to go to Rome. You can go next door, right. You can go to the nursing home down the street, where people are lonely and in need of hope, and you can make a pilgrimage to christ present in them. So there are lots of ways to still to still celebrate this jubilee, even if you can't go to rome, because we're all called to be pilgrims of hope, and so I think it's really a call to search our own lives and say, how can I bring hope to someone today, how can I be this, this instrument of hope in a world that sometimes is really hopeless or seems really hopeless?
Speaker 3:I'm not sure about you, olivia, but I know at the Basilica of the Sacred Heart here in Notre Dame there's been mentioned how that the church has been designated as kind of a special church. What does that kind of factor into our lives here?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's another way that you can kind of celebrate the Jubilee even if you can't go to Rome is that there's only certain holy doors, and we can talk about holy doors in a second. There's only a few holy doors, and the holy doors are in basilicas in Rome, but that doesn't mean there aren't other pilgrimage places, and so the Basilica of the Sacred Heart has been designated by Bishop Rhodes as a pilgrimage site.
Speaker 1:The Pope asked the bishops of the dioceses to designate certain churches in their dioceses usually maybe the cathedral or ones like the Basilica that have historic significance as pilgrimage places, and so someone could come on pilgrimage to the campus of the University of Notre Dame and it would be a beautiful pilgrimage, right? We could help them, we could tell them everything they need to see and do. We actually had an episode in last season about the Basilica with one of the tour guides and like the riches that are here on campus. But so you can make a pilgrimage to one of these sites and, even if you can't go to Rome, you can still make that intentional journey.
Speaker 2:If we're talking a little bit about intentional journeys before we move on to the Holy Doors, I have one more question for you. I know during a Jubilee year there's a whole year when you could go on pilgrimage, and here at Verso we have trips running almost the whole year round. Is there any significance to going at a specific time, or why would people choose one time over another?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's a great question. I mean, I would say, go on pilgrimage whenever you can right Like whenever you whenever the opportunity is, so don't don't get discouraged if you're like well, it's just not in the plans for 2025 because I have class or I don't have any money or right Like there's.
Speaker 1:There's lots of times that I think the Lord calls us to himself. I'd say the best time to go on pilgrimage is when you feel the Lord is calling you into that relationship, because it's all like a pilgrimage. Is that intentional journey? Anybody can go on vacation, right? Anybody can just decide okay, I have some expendable income, I'm going to go see the Colosseum in Rome. But a pilgrim is one who says, yeah, I'd love to see the Colosseum in Rome, but I'm going to go with that intention, with open hands and an open heart, ready to see what the Lord has in store for me on this pilgrimage. And so you know you can go on pilgrimage anytime, if you just even down the street, if you just ask the Lord to work through that journey.
Speaker 1:So you know, I could definitely recommend certain times to go to Rome. The Jubilee year would be one of those times, because it's just full of grace and I don't like crowds, but there is something really exhilarating about being there with so many other people who were there for the Jubilee. So I was there in January, which is a great time to go to Rome because it's off season, so the crowds weren't intense like they might be this summer, but just to be there with people from all over the world. And to you know, there's certain events this year that celebrate, like we just took a group to the Jubilee of Deacons and 10% of the world's permanent deacons were in Rome for this event.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:And so there are specific events you might want to go to, just to be surrounded by people from all over the world. Sometimes we lose track of that in the States the universality of the church, the history of the church. So there are particular moments I would suggest going, but really anytime. I mean, in Rome the fall is beautiful, christmas is wonderful because it's off season, but really the idea of that pilgrimage is when is the Lord calling you closer to himself through this pilgrimage and this journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great answer, Thank you.
Speaker 3:It's been so incredible to see the impact that certain pilgrims have had going to Rome, visiting Rome, getting to work here in Verso, I think. I mean we had a call earlier this morning of a deacon who was actually on the trip you were mentioning. I think Olivia could probably speak more about it because you got to speak with him right.
Speaker 2:I did. I spoke to one of the deacons who went on the Jubilee of Deacons trip and he was just so excited and just felt so blessed to be able to attend that trip and he spoke about a moment when him and 2,400 other deacons all walked in at the same time to a church in Rome, I believe, and he just said it was breathtaking to just see, like you know, this expression of Christ, like in Rome with all of these other deacons. It was an experience that for him, was once in a lifetime and he could not speak enough positive things about it.
Speaker 1:It's pilgrimage can be a very life-changing opportunity. Yeah, it just. I think it unites you in the to the church in such a unique way and in the church yes, the Pope and you know the magisterium and all of that highfalutin stuff, but think about it, the Holy Father wasn't even at the Jubilee for deacons because he was in the hospital and so it also unites you to your brothers and sisters in Christ in such a particular way. That was one thing that touched me at World Youth Day. A lot of us went to World Youth Day at Verso and I think a lot of people were like, oh, I'm going to go see the Pope, but you were actually probably rarely going to see the Pope. He was going to drive by, he was going to be really far away. Right, josh, you were at World Youth.
Speaker 3:Day right.
Speaker 1:I was actually more touched with the encounter with Christ in my neighbor, in the universality of the church, even more. Do you agree?
Speaker 3:with that. I couldn't agree more, though, especially with the sheer number of people that you get to. I mean, the visualization of the universality of the church is unlike anything I've ever seen at World Youth Day, and I mean, I think to have an encounter like that in Rome this year perhaps, or even, like you're saying, just the encounter with your next door neighbor perhaps.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be grand all the time, but it's incredibly, incredibly powerful. Yeah, I love that the deacon had that kind of that ability to reflect on that moment too. You know, cause that's another important thing of pilgrimage is when you get home to look back at those moments that touched you and to take that moment to process it. I think sometimes we just come back and we go into our everyday life but process it and see what was the Lord doing and maybe I won't see it for a few weeks or even a few years what the Lord was doing in that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Keeping those moments present in your mind, everything that stands out to you and even the little moments that just can change someone's worldview. That's very important.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I've got. I've got to ask now like what's, what's the deal with the holy doors?
Speaker 2:here Because.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I've ever been through a holy door, but I have been hearing a lot about them.
Speaker 1:So I hadn't really been. I hadn't been through a holy door, I don't think, until this past month, which is crazy, because I had lived in Rome. I've lived in Rome twice. I've been to Rome because I had lived in Rome. I've lived in Rome twice. I've been to Rome. I don't know 15, 20 times. I've been to St Peter's. How many times? Right, and I don't think I walked through in 2016 in the Holy Door. I don't recall, I don't remember it. So I don't think I'd ever been through a Holy Door until this last month. So the Holy Doors are only open during Jubilee years, which is why I've been to St Peter's a hundred thousand times and never walked through the. I've been. I've probably been like, I've gotten into St Peter's Basilica in probably a dozen different doors in different ways, including from the roof never walked through.
Speaker 1:So the the holy door is a special door and it's only open during Jubilee years and it's actually bricked up three of the four. So there's four holy doors in the four major basilicas. This year there's actually a fifth holy door Pope Francis made in one of the prisons in Rome so that the prisoners could participate in this incredible year of mercy. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. I wish you all could see Josh's face.
Speaker 2:And I just had to tell you that he was like what?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, there's a, there's a holy door in the prison, so I did not walk through that door, but we walked through the other four and they're bricked up. In three of the four doors they're basilicas. They're bricked up on the back. St Paul's side of the walls has, like, another door behind the door, but they're only open during Jubilee, it's.
Speaker 1:It's not that like, oh, you can only walk through these doors because they zap you and do something special during Jubilee years, um, but that this it's a sign that it is this year of the Lord's mercy, that it is this year of favor, um, I actually kind of think about the fact that there were these gates in Rome that during the pagan era that were only open, um, or maybe they were closed. They were either open or closed during times of peace, and so it kind of reminds me of that. Like this is like this outward symbol that something's different. You know that something's different now, but you walk through these doors and that's that's kind of a sign that your pilgrimage has ended right. You walk through these doors and you've made your pilgrimage, you've made it to the.
Speaker 1:I mean think about the people that used to walk from England and go on foot to, you know, to to Rome on pilgrimage during a Jubilee.
Speaker 1:That would be a huge deal to walk through those doors and be like I've made it, um. But I always remind people your pilgrimage actually doesn't end there, because you you have to take the fruits of the pilgrimage home. And this is really the beginning, right, because you've been transformed, you've had these experiences and now you go pilgrimage home and this is really the beginning, right, because you've been transformed, you've had these experiences and now you go back home. But so the holy doors are really dear to me, because I wrote a Bible study book prayer reflection on the door at St Peter's. But really the door is Christ, right, and John Paul II said that in the Jubilee year Christ is the entrance to the Father, he is the gate, he is the sheep gate, he is the door. And so the doors are just really outward manifestations of that inward disposition that we want to come to the Father and that we want to be transformed and start anew again.
Speaker 2:Joni trivia question for you Can you name all four holy doors, which I'm sure you can?
Speaker 1:So the one I wrote the book on and the one I think that's most famous, is the Holy Door at St Peter's Basilica. And I think it's most famous because that's actually the one that Holy Father traditionally opens, and he opens out on Christmas Eve, prior to a holy year. So you can see actually a really beautiful picture of this past. Christmas Eve, francis was in his wheelchair and so he needed help opening the door. In 2000, john Paul II was so bent over with his Parkinson's that it was difficult for him to even walk through the door. So there's really beautiful moments that come to us from these doors, from these moments.
Speaker 1:Then St Paul, outside the walls, has one of the oldest holy doors. The holy doors have kind of been redone, but they've always been there. Does that make sense? So like they've always had these, we've always had these doors since, like I don't know, the 16th century maybe, but we've gotten new, actual doors, and so the ones are the ones at St Paul's at the walls. St Mary Major is another one of the major basilicas dedicated to Our Lady that has a Holy Door. And then St John Lateran, which is actually the Cathedral of Rome, has the other one, and those three are from the pontificate of John Paul II and then the one at St Peter's is from the pontificate of Pius XII. So we always had these doorways. But the doors themselves are relatively new, especially in Rome, like 1950, they're like, yeah, that's like yesterday compared to the basilica itself, right From the Renaissance.
Speaker 2:I've got a very quick follow-up question for you. You mentioned something about the Pope creating a fifth door for this Jubilee. Can you talk a little bit on the process of how a new door is created?
Speaker 1:So that's a good question, and I don't exactly know. I think he makes the decision and says this is what we're doing.
Speaker 1:And I feel like Pope Francis does that a lot. But it's interesting, in the year of mercy, which we referenced earlier, the 2016, they actually had this kind of thing where let's put doors in all the pilgrimage sites. So you might remember, in 2016, there was like a special holy door, even at the Basilica at Notre Dame, and it was basically just one of the doors was designated okay, this is the holy door and this is the door you walk through on your pilgrimage, and it's not. I mean, it's always open, right, it's never closed. So people anticipated that would happen again in 2025, which is kind of funny, because the Vatican came out and said, no, the only holy doors are in Rome, like there are no other holy doors, they're just in Rome. So then the chapels and the shrines that had closed their doors to market as a holy door to open it in 2025 was like, oh no, what do we do now?
Speaker 1:Like, do we open this door now? Do we keep it closed? What do we do? So it's kind of funny the Vatican didn't announce very quickly that there was only going to be, they were only going to be these five. But um, so in 2016, there were lots of holy doors and um but. So I think even there's been a misunderstanding from people, because they they think, oh, if there's only five holy doors, that means I have to go to Rome and I'm I'm missing out on the indulgence because I can't go to Rome. And so I'm glad you brought up, josh, that, like, the Basilica is still a place of pilgrimage, even if there's not technically this holy door, but that the holy doors are in Rome. So I think Pope Francis just decided, you know, it would be really good, as if these prisoners had access to that as well, and I think it's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:I was incredibly wowed and amazed at that. I mean, it's just so beautiful to give every person, in every walk of life, the opportunity and I mean even for those who are unable to travel to Rome. This year, it's been a great grace, working here at Verso to drill home the understanding that everyone's a pilgrim always, and we're pilgrims on a journey, the journey of life, you know, and it doesn't just start and stop in a journey to Rome or even this year, but it's really a lifelong pilgrimage that we're on at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:I love that John Paul, our founder, our boss, really talks about that a lot, because I think it would be tempting as a pilgrimage company to just say, no, you all have to go on pilgrimage, right. To be a pilgrim, you have to travel, and here, here are our upcoming trips, and so I think it's just so edifying that that's where John Paul's vision comes from is this idea that we're all pilgrims and we're all called to be this pilgrimage of life that ends in heaven. I just think it's really edifying to work for a place that sees pilgrimage in that way and not just we're a business that we want you to travel, but actually, if you can't travel, that's okay, we're going to help you anyway. We're going to do a podcast, we're going to you know that's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the way in which a physical pilgrimage can be incorporated into your life, Like it's not these kind of separate things, but rather you can take, if you're blessed to go on a pilgrimage to Rome during the Holy Year even how that can be incorporated into this grand pilgrimage that we're all on.
Speaker 1:Well, as we wrap up, because we're almost to our time, we're going to get kicked out of the room we're recording in, I'm going to turn the tables and I'm going to ask you each if you could go on pilgrimage tomorrow. So money's not an object. Classes aren't an object, doesn't matter when would you go on pilgrimage and why?
Speaker 3:And I'm going to start with Olivia.
Speaker 2:do you want to take this one first? Oh, that's a good question. Well, I think something that matters to me when I'm thinking about religion and what it means to me. It's very deeply personal and for me it's very connected to my family. Um, if I was to go on pilgrimage tomorrow, I would go. I would go to Sicily, actually, where it's, which is where my family is from, where my grandma was born, where she immigrated from, and though it might not be in Rome proper, where all the holy doors are, I think being able to go to a place where you know that helped raise my family, that was the birthplace of my grandmother and of my family, where our roots are, would be extremely meaningful to me and hopefully seek out some opportunities to better that town and better that city where she came from. While I'm there, in the spirit of pilgrimage itself, Um, I would go there because of its close family connection and opportunities to help better something that made someone that helped better me, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to give that return, yeah absolutely I. That reminds me absolutely I that reminds me of. There's a there's a tradition I think it's in england and it's on their mother's day that you go to the church that you were baptized in, because that's the church, like that was what gave you birth, right, right that's what gave you new birth and so, like I was just thinking, like to go to the church, possibly in sicily, where your grandmother was baptized, or where the faith, like you can like, like, trace your own faith back.
Speaker 2:I've been there, actually to the church where my grandma was baptized. It was an incredibly meaningful experience to me just seeing it, but I definitely understand what you're saying. That's really beautiful. It's 2000 miles across the ocean, but it's still kind of felt a little bit like home. All right, josh, wow, that's incredibly beautiful.
Speaker 3:Well, I've got a lot of different places I would probably go. I don't know If we're packing my bags tonight and flying tomorrow. I've been wanting to journey to France, especially to see the shrine, the place of Our Lady of Lourdes or she the apparition, just because I've had an incredibly deep devotion to hers from early days of before confirmation. And now getting to be at the University of Notre Dame where we have our own little grotto I think it's a seventh of the size but dedicated to Our Lady of Lourdes, would be very meaningful and a great blessing. To get the journey there and be closer to that apparition and to our lady of lords would be very meaningful and a great blessing to get the journey there and be closer to that apparition and to our mother so I love that in the grotto at notre dame there's that little rock that you can touch.
Speaker 1:That's from the grotto at lords, and I love that. I think not everyone knows you know that little that it's there and like you're touching france when you're. I hope they haven't done that too much, because then they'd have to rebuild the grotto like they've, like you know, given all the rocks away. It's a pretty big place though, so I like that answer.
Speaker 2:that's a good answer, like I think, of the grotto at notre dame and it's just such a special place and it's a very magnificent place, and seeing somewhere that's seven times the size would be, I don't even know what that would look like. That's amazing, joni, do you?
Speaker 1:have a place where you'd love to pilgrimage. We're turning the question back on you. Yeah, well, when you were talking about family homes, I would love to go to my mother's from Slovenia, my mother's family. So I've always wanted to go there even more for you know the family connection and the natural beauty. But if I was picking like a strictly like religious shrine, you know, I would probably say Mexico City. I'm going in November, but if I could go tomorrow, I probably would go tomorrow because of Our Lady of Guadalupe and just that gift that she has been to our country. I think just that, the testimony, the evangelization, the power of light into a culture of darkness, yeah, I just want to see the Tilma with my own eyes, and so I am going in November, but if I could go tomorrow, I would go. I'd go see Our Lady of Guadalupe tomorrow, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Great answer. Well, thanks for joining me, both of you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. It's been such a joy to be here. I feel like I've learned a lot. Certainly, and hopefully all those listening have learned just a little bit.
Speaker 1:maybe I think you guys might take over the podcast. I'll just hand the hosting over to you.
Speaker 1:We might get so many reviews that forget, forget Joni, like we'll take. We'll take Josh and Olivia instead. But thanks, listeners, for listening. Hopefully you did learn a little bit about the Jubilee and how you can be a Pilgrim of Hope. And this begins our second season of In Via, where we will look at the Jubilee. We'll be looking at St Peter's, we'll be looking at other churches in Rome. We'll be looking at Carlo Acutis, who's going to be canonized this year. We'll be looking at Pier Giorgio Frassati, who will be canonized. So we have lots of great episodes coming for you in this second season of NVEA. Do you want to experience this historic event in the life of the church for yourself? Whether you want to take a group or you're just an individual looking for a trip, verso Ministries can make that dream a reality. Visit versoministriescom slash jubilee for all our jubilee dates and for more information.
