In Via
Planning a trip? Or just on the pilgrimage of daily living? We are the podcast at the intersection of faith and travel, assisting you on the journey to encounter Christ. Hear stories, discover travel tips, and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we’ll show you that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome, Lourdes, Mexico City, or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you - right there in your car, on your run, or in the middle of your workday.
In Via
Welcoming Pilgrims: Stories of Hospitality at the Basilica of the Sacred Heart
This week, we sat down with Sue Montalbano, the previous coordinator of tours and hospitality at the University of Notre Dame’s Sacred Heart Basillica.
Get ready to uncover the hidden stories behind the thousands of visitors welcomed to the Basilica of the Sacred Heart at the University of Notre Dame. From her stories of spontaneous visitors to the organized chaos of football weekends, Sue shares how she managed volunteer tour guides, created meaningful tour scripts, and ensures each visitor experiences the Basilica's deep spiritual significance. She shares how she used her role as her mission field, guiding every tourist into a pilgrim, helping them not only uncover history, but discover Christ.
In our conversation, Sue and Joan talk through the delicate balance of preserving the sacred atmosphere while catering to a diverse array of guests. Whether you're planning a pilgrimage, or just a fan of Notre Dame and the Fighting Irish, get ready to hear about it all!
Stories in Light by by Cecilia Davis Cunningham and Nancy Cavadini
A Spire of Faith by Thomas J Schlereth
Welcome to In Via, the podcast where we're navigating the pilgrimage of life. We are all in via on the way and we are learning a lot as we go. I'm your host, joan Watson. Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we'll see that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you right there in your car, on your run or in the middle of your workday. In this episode, we're turning the tables a little bit. We are not talking to a pilgrim, but to Sue Montalbano. Now, sue's been on pilgrimage herself, but today our conversation focuses on her time at the University of Notre Dame, working at the Basilica of the Sacred Heart, not being a pilgrim, but receiving pilgrims. Well, thanks for joining us, sue. I'm really excited for this conversation.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Even if we were exchanging recipes, I'd be here. Well, maybe we could do that at the end.
Speaker 1:That's the next episode. So for people who I gave a little intro to start the episode, but could you tell people three sentences about yourself? I always that's kind of the way we start a lot of our episodes If you could only tell people three sentences, what would you say?
Speaker 2:I would say anybody who knows me knows that I am a very blessed daughter of God. I've been blessed to be a wife, a mother, now a grandmother. And thirdly, I would let everyone know that I have an addiction to ice cream and I've passed it to the rest of my family.
Speaker 1:So that about covers it. That's why we're friends. Yes, that's why we're friends. Yes, that's why we're friends. So we are chatting today about a position you once held, and I'm excited because we talk a lot about pilgrimage, obviously, on this podcast. But we talk a lot to pilgrims who go to a holy place, go to a shrine and then talk about their experience, and I was very excited that you agreed to do this, because we're going to kind of flip that on its head. We're going to talk to you about receiving pilgrims. So could you tell us a little bit about what you did at the Basilica of the Sacred Heart here at Notre Dame? What was your role? And then, maybe, what did that entail? What did that role entail for people who might not be familiar with it?
Speaker 2:Well, I was officially coordinator of tours and hospitality at the Basilica of the Sacred Heart. I was not hired to give tours, but rather to have a bird's eye view of everything that was going on there. There were at any given time a few more, a few less, but around 60 volunteer tour guides at the Basilica and I would schedule the tours, schedule the guides, make sure that we had accommodations for anybody that needed extra help. I worked with the Chamber of Commerce in South Bend and different tour companies that come on a regular basis. Field trips I was a former teacher so that was one of my favorite things was field trips. We had preschoolers through college and adults coming through and I would you know there were housekeeping things walking through the basilica making sure everything was in place. I would order the little holy cards at the entranceway and restock them, keep an eye on everything, make sure it was well taken care of, and then I would help out anybody else that worked at the Basilica during the holidays and special events that we had there.
Speaker 2:So it was fun.
Speaker 1:I think it might surprise some people that I mean they think of the University of Notre Dame, they think of a college, they think of research, they think of the football team, and if you haven't been to campus people might be surprised that the Basilica would be working with tour groups or would be working with field trips and so what like influx, and I just think kind of of Saturday mornings, right, football fans wandering through the Basilica. But to have organized tours, was that somebody? People would approach the Basilica and say we're bringing a group? Would it be people just wandering in? Like what for people who might not be familiar with the Basilica? What did that tour culture look like? Who was coming for tours?
Speaker 2:I guess we had people that would just walk in off the street. You know, there's that big Notre Dame sign out on the tollway. And they would, just you know, unexpectedly just veer off and come on over. But we also had regular field trips and things that were scheduled a year in advance. Sometimes they were, you know, weeks out, days out, it just it was all over the place.
Speaker 1:So I think people I mean I was reading the stats once for Indiana and I think Notre Dame's like the second most visited tourist attraction in Indiana other than the Speedway or something right yes, we would have hundreds of thousands of people in and out and those are.
Speaker 2:You know we didn't have a scientific way to count our visitors, but we were pretty good on football Saturdays. We had counters and things like that. But so you know, any given football weekend we could have 20,000 people through and we're only counting for a certain amount of hours during the day or certain, you know it's true. During the week, so it's a lot of people. Yeah, it's a lot of people.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of people. What drew you to the position at the Basilica?
Speaker 2:Well, like I said, I was a former teacher and I liked the idea of my husband was working at Notre Dame, so that was kind of a go-to, I guess, to look for a job. Yeah, saw the job and in my adult life I had never had a job outside of a classroom, so that was kind of a oh I can, you know, I don't have to ask anybody, um, to go to the bathroom or to watch anybody while I'm gone, so that was kind of fun. But um, uh, I think that, uh, I'm a real people person, so I thought that was um was going to be good.
Speaker 2:I think that all of a real people person, so I thought that was going to be good. I think that all of my skills as a teacher lent themselves to the organization there, yeah, and so I think it was a good fit, yeah yeah, what did you like most about being at the Basilica?
Speaker 1:How long were you there?
Speaker 2:I was there for six years, okay, wow, about being at the basilica. How long were you there? I was there for six years, okay, wow. And we worked here. You know our my job didn't wasn't seasonal or anything. It went on going during breaks and yeah and all of that. So, um I I started in february of 2016 to february of 2022 wow, so um of 2022.
Speaker 1:Wow, so, um, uh, yeah, and what? Sorry, I interrupted myself with a new question. So what would? What did you like most?
Speaker 2:about your time. I liked, uh, the people, of course, and you meet people from all over the world. Um, I liked our guides and we had most of them were retirees. We had some seminarians, we had some high school kids and also college students, but they weren't able to be consistent because of their schedules and their life going on. But our retirees were really, really interesting and I think when I started there, uh, our kids were not married, I didn't have, you know. So I learned a lot from them. They were just that much further along than me, yeah and um, and I still have, uh, friends excuse me, friends that are.
Speaker 2:You know that I still socialize with from meeting them at the Basilica.
Speaker 1:I love that yeah, you learned how to be a good grandma through the Navy Grandma Tips.
Speaker 2:I did, because they would take off and go visit and you know, they had their lives and this was just another way of giving back and, of course, they enjoyed it. Yeah, they were so passionate about it, yeah, so yeah, what were some of the challenges?
Speaker 2:um, again it was, the challenges were being able to be, uh, flexible back and forth because, um, there are things that come up in any church, and especially the basilica, where you have to cancel on a dime. You have to explain to people why. You know the disappointment that they're not able to come because of a funeral or a special event that's happening. Football was always a challenge, because you have the skateboards that want to come through the basilica.
Speaker 2:Yes, and explaining, trying to explain to people that this is a place of worship and people that really are not familiar with Catholicism Sure, and to make in spite of all that, to make everybody feel welcome. The parking Parking was always an issue for all of our tours. I would have to hightail it to another part of campus to help an RV turn around or help some seniors off of a bus and show them you know which way we're going to go. So just the logistics.
Speaker 1:I think, think of every day, yeah, the things that the people who are visiting don't see.
Speaker 2:No, you hope they don't right, Because that means it's going smoothly. Yes, and you know juggling our program with organ practice and special tours by professors that we're not involved in Right Coming through the facility and things like that, and that's a perfect example of things like.
Speaker 1:I was just in Fatima this summer. I didn't think about those things. You don't think about the logistics of running an enormous shrine that has tens of thousands of people. You're just there as a pilgrim and you're enjoying it, but the logistics of making everything run smoothly is just one of those behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:You know, before I worked there I would show up at church and think that this all just magically happens, and now I know it doesn't.
Speaker 1:You see the sacristan moving and the signs moving yes, Was it difficult you spoke about the skateboarders Was it difficult for the Basilica to just not be another tourist attraction on the campus?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it was difficult for the Basilica, but difficult to explain sometimes, yes, to people that didn't have a background in Catholicism or in any religion you know, maybe they were without a religion to understand that this isn't a museum although there are great works of art in there as we all know, but we aren't really docents, we were tour guides, but we tried to think of it as a ministry and have a sense of reverence all the time when we were walking through and tried to relay that, usually at the beginning of a tour, if we could usually at the beginning of a tour, if we could and to answer, not to do it, not to do a tour rotely, because you don't know what people are coming in with um and their background, although you usually find out or ask questions, um, during that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we talked before, before the episode, we chatted and you mentioned you really stressed the pilgrimage aspect with the guides, that that was something that you wanted. They weren't docents and you didn't want it just to be another guided tour. And so do you think it was mostly in that showing of reverence as you were walking through, showing them that they could mirror that? So if I'm seeing my guide genuflect, I know that something's happening right. I know that there's this is a different atmosphere or a lower voice or the ways that you help the guides show that this is a pilgrimage site and not just a tour, that they weren't just docents. Can you speak a little bit more about that? Was that the idea of just approaching this with reverence and that it's not a museum, and how did you help your guides kind of do that with their groups?
Speaker 2:one thing that, when I started, was I wanted to make sure that, um, if you know the story of the basilica and really of notre dame, uh, you know that it's a very french story.
Speaker 2:You know we're all about the fighting irish right, but this is a very french story so you know, we're all about the fighting Irish right, but this is a very French story so we all had to get on the same page. When I started, we did not have a script for any tour. We also gave you know we give tours of the Basilica. I don't know how Katie Pelzer is running things over there now and she does a beautiful job. I don't know how Katie Pelzer is running things over there now and she does a beautiful job.
Speaker 2:I don't know how they're handling but the log chapel there is a bishop's museum downstairs in the basilica and also a museum off of the sacristy where my desk was back then. So I developed scripts for each one of those to keep us all on the same page. But, having said that, everybody has their special part of the basilica that they like to concentrate on, and I think that's fine and you would kind of give the information or answer questions. But if you wanted to spend more time on the windows or the altar, whatever, I think that was that was perfectly fine, so um uh, I think that, um, that was key in keeping it.
Speaker 2:Um, uh, not coming in thinking it was going to be a football tour yeah, that it was going to be more of a sacred um story, yes, of the development and the how, how Notre Dame progressed throughout the years and and how um faith was such a huge. You know just everything, yeah as to how that happened, so that that helped yeah, we're a.
Speaker 1:We're a catholic university before we're a football program.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think people think about yeah, like you said, the Fighting Irish. People don't even realize. And then they don't realize it's Notre Dame du Lac and it's Our Lady coming from. And there's so many French aspects in the Basilica, like Our Lady of Lourdes, not just the grotto, but the beautiful. My favorite painting in the Basilica is the painting of Our Lady of Lords, the stained glass window of Our Lady of Lords, and so there's so many beautiful.
Speaker 2:French touches, and all of that was going on in real time during, you know, during Notre Dame's development in those years.
Speaker 1:So, they were very interested in the story of all the Holy Cross priests and everybody that was here was very interested in all of that I heard and now you can correct me if I'm wrong on this I heard that the stained glass window of our lady of lords is one of the first depictions of our lady of lords in the united states. Because it was so early on, yeah, in the story.
Speaker 2:I don't know that, but that's a good.
Speaker 1:I've never heard that, but that makes sense because we don't when we put the timeline together. This wasn't ancient history, it was all in real time. Our Lady of Lords, our Lady, had appeared at Lords, father Sorin had been to Lords and it's this beautiful French devotion yes. So I love. That idea of stressing the French part helps us see that this isn't just the fighting Irish Right, but that this is a Catholicolic university um in love with our lady the lady chapel and and the log chapel for people who don't.
Speaker 1:People should look it up. But the log chapel is the chapel of father soren, correct that it's one of the ancient not ancient but oldest buildings on campus? Because it's a replica, or is it the real?
Speaker 2:thing. It is a replicate. The original did burn. Father baden was the one who was there first, and so now the oldest building is the old college seminary. And that's where they moved from the log chapel over to there, because it got really cold and they were so much more comfortable in that brick building right.
Speaker 2:But now that is the oldest but the. But they did bring a um, um, uh artist. I guess he would have been, but he was uh to hone the boards um the way they would have been back then. He was an ex-slave from kentucky that they brought over here to uh to rebuild it, so he would know the art behind it. So we think it looks very much like it did back then. That's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how would one go about? Do you get a tour of the log chapel? Can you have a tour of the log chapel, do you?
Speaker 2:contact the basilica. You can contact the basilica and you can. Now, before I left, we were able to schedule online, so you don't even have to call. You could schedule online and I'm sure Katie would work with anybody who wanted to come, that's kind of one of those hidden treasures.
Speaker 1:I feel like you know, people don't necessarily know about it and it's a little hidden treasure on campus. Do you think anyone ever came to the Basilica just because they stumbled upon it or they thought they were a tourist and they ended up a pilgrim?
Speaker 2:Every day, they ended up touched.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:Yes, every day, and nobody realized that.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, the eye candy in there is wonderful wonderful, I mean even if you're not into the whole um religious aspect of of it being a basilica and so forth, just the the grandiose uh um spectacle that you see when you walk in there, which is all to the glory of god. Um, people wonder sometimes well, why does it have to be so elaborate or so? Well, it's to the glory of God, and you know they did a lot. We are so lucky we have that basilica in the state it is now because, of course, during the 60s, 1960s, of course they were trying to tone down everything and be minimalistic and it didn't happen here, praise.
Speaker 1:God. So gosh, they didn't whitewash those walls, which we're grateful for.
Speaker 2:No, and so people are drawn in initially because of that. But if you start talking to one of our people that volunteer there, you'll quickly find out that there's so much more and some people just want to. You know they're 10 minutes and they're getting the highlights and we try to do you know what they're interested in Other people. They could stay three or four hours. They want every little bit that there is to know which is really fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. What's one thing most people don't know about? The Basilica of the Sacred Heart.
Speaker 2:Well, there's one thing that people don't know is that the stained glass windows, which I think are probably one of the biggest treasures at the Basilica, were, we believe at Notre Dame that it's one of the largest collection of stained glass from that time period, due to the destruction in World War I and II Wow. So there's a company that takes care of many things in the basilica, but one of the things is the stained glass windows and that's Conrad Schmidt up in Milwaukee. So you'll see every now and then the scaffolding go up and they take such good care of the windows. But you know, of course stained glass windows are for evangelization, right, they were a way to move God's message because people weren't reading and things were in different languages. So it's such a treasure.
Speaker 2:And to think that they were fired and made in France and then, 1860s or so, they had to be put on a boat, maybe a train, maybe a wagon, who knows to get here to Notre Dame. They didn't get stolen, they didn't get broken and we have them today. So that's just a such a beautiful story. And I even brought a book to reference one of our tour guides, nancy Cavadini and I'm sorry, nancy was not a tour guide, but Cecilia Cunningham was, and they did a book a few years back. It's called Stories in Light and gosh. It's just if you're interested in the Basilica windows, all of them are pictured and they are done in order as you walk in the church so you can read about all of them.
Speaker 1:Yes, we will put that in the show notes so that people can find it. I love the windows because of all the saints. They depict the saints and then they have a little story from the saints' life, and when I'm in the long line of confession that's always present before Mass at the Basilica, I love looking up at the windows and trying to decipher what saint is that and what story is that depicting.
Speaker 2:Another thing that I love that people, just a fun fact is the beautiful Pieta by Ivan Mestrovic in the Basilica. That is his original, wow. And if you go to the Vatican, you'll see one that's just a tabletop size in a different color, because ours is Carrara marble. I think that I've seen it there, I think the one that I saw, I think it was black and I'm not sure what it was made out of. But there's a sign at the Vatican that says the original is in Notre Dame, indiana.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. And that's in one of the side chapels. The side chapels are full of treasures. Oh my gosh, Cardinal O'Hara's tomb is there. The relics, the relic collection of the Basilica is stunning.
Speaker 2:Like you could get lost in that little chapel and they just refurbish that right and it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:It was closed for a while and I was worried and I was like what's happening at the relic chapel and it's worth?
Speaker 2:it's just worth getting lost in all the saints that are there and the very back of the basilica there's a lady chapel and that was all bricked up. And then for Father Soren's 50th ordination anniversary that was all added as a gift to him our lady chapel, because he had such a devotion to our Blessed. Mother, and that's probably one of my favorite things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that that little back chapel. Yes, and it's where the football team celebrates Mass on. Saturdays to bring out the football team again.
Speaker 2:Yes, and they have marriages back there. It's really beautiful. Thanks, yeah, it's really beautiful, it's really nice.
Speaker 1:So you may have just told us, but what would you say is your favorite part of the?
Speaker 2:Basilica. I love our Blessed Mother, so I have to say that's my favorite.
Speaker 1:Yes, going back there to see her. It is really beautiful. This wasn't in our prep, so I'm putting you on the spot, but could you speak a little bit about the museum as well? Yes, you mentioned the museum and the sacristy where your office was. Could you speak a little bit about what is there?
Speaker 2:A lot of things that are historically important to the history of Notre Dame. Not all of them, just a sampling there's so many more things over in the archives, in the um in the library, but um uh, it's a wide variety of chalices, um uh, items that were used um uh early on uh, robes and rings, gifts from the Studebaker family to Notre.
Speaker 2:Dame. I'm trying to think here Some of the things from Father Soren's travels. On the average he went back to during his time at Notre Dame he made one trip back to Europe a year. Oh, wow, every year on the average.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So he came back with some wonderful things, I bet. So there are beautiful things back there. So during my time there we tried to have it open on Football Saturday so a lot of people could come back and view it. So if anybody's here for football, see if the Sacristy Museum is open so many treasures.
Speaker 1:Do you have any advice to a pilgrim who's about to embark on a pilgrimage, even if it's a day trip to the University of Notre Dame to go to the grotto and pray at the basilica? Do you have any advice to someone who's about to go? Because you've been on the other side, you've been on that side of receiving them. What would be your advice to somebody who's about to go on a pilgrimage?
Speaker 2:I would say don't have any expectation. You know, just go, just be a blank slate and see what's there, what, what touches you, what doesn't touch you. Um, uh, don't be disappointed if nothing, if you don't feel anything or nothing happens or you're tired or whatever. Because I think sometimes when you go on pilgrimage, you get home and then all of a sudden something sinks in, or you know, the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding light bulb goes off. So I would just just let the Holy Spirit move you through there. You know, yeah, sometimes I think if we prepare too much, you're not open to whatever else is going to come along.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's funny because my role at Verso is preparing people for the trip and it's always that fine balance between setting expectations and not setting expectations.
Speaker 1:Right so preparing them for what they're going to see and experience, but making sure they remain kind of that open, going to see and experience, but making sure they remain kind of that open, that open receptacle that is not disappointed or is willing to be surprised too. And I think when we make like, when we set expectations, we can be disappointed because something doesn't happen quite the way we think it's going to happen.
Speaker 2:But something else has happened and we miss it Right, or you're comparing yourself to one of your fellow pilgrims, yeah. And they're super excited and all jazzed about something and you're sitting there going well, I don't know. You know it's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay, but something else might strike you differently. Did you ever encounter a pilgrim who maybe had some misconceptions? Did you ever encounter a pilgrim who maybe had some misconceptions or came to this place and maybe came with a closed heart or came with misconceptions about what they were going to find really disappointing experience with Catholicism or the.
Speaker 2:Catholic Church, and they've kind of got a wall up already and sometimes they'll make a comment or they'll, you know, say that you know they don't agree with something, or I don't know, just just kind of be obstinate about um, moving through and hearing about things.
Speaker 2:but then, um, we've seen people that were in that, in that uh spot, and then by the end of the tour they were, you could see that something had happened. Other people not, so it's I don't know. And then other people that are just excited from the beginning and even more faithful or joyful at the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would imagine it might be difficult, especially for a non-Catholic or someone who's not religious, to walk into such a gold place and have that like oh, why'd you spend all this money?
Speaker 2:One of the common threads, it seemed, with people that were of other religions or no religion, was the concept of Mary and the saints Sure that was hard for them, because she's all over and the saints are all over that place. So it was always with that type of visitor. It seemed like it was always an explanation to be made that we don't worship Mary, that you know she's an inner intercessor and, um, uh, that that whole yeah thing. But I think people left understanding. Yeah, what a great like.
Speaker 1:What a great mode of evangelization, what a great tool of evangelization where someone encounters catholicism for the first time or encounters Catholicism in a new way in this beautiful church and the guides are able to at least maybe give them a new perspective or a different perspective than what they've heard. Right, but pilgrimage as evangelization, I think, is really really beautiful. Yes, any other stories or things you'd like to share?
Speaker 2:There were um, there were a few times when we had like terminally, ill people come, and this was their bucket list and you know, local make a wish programs and um things like that. So I had one, especially that a gentleman who had planned it, planned it, planned it for a long time. It was a Make-A-Wish program and all of a sudden he took a turn and he couldn't come.
Speaker 2:We were all so disappointed because this is, you know, he was so wanting to do this. Well, he rallied and got to come again. So when he came back, we showered him with gifts and it was such a joy filled day and that was really special. But you know, there are some times that people come in, uh, to the Basilica, and you think that, um, you're going to give, they're the pilgrim and you're, you're the one who's going to give them an experience or thing. But but they have stories too and they will, you know, tell you a little bit about their faith journey and so on and so forth. And you realize, that day you were the pilgrim. Wow, and that happened all the time because we would share experiences. Although I was supposed to oversee the program and do all the nuts and bolts type things, I ended up giving tours too. So we would all share our experiences. And, gosh, that happened a lot and it was just it gives me chills now to think about it because we were receiving as much as we were trying to give.
Speaker 1:It's that great reminder that we're all on a pilgrimage and at certain points in our life we make physical pilgrimages places. But we're all on this pilgrimage of life and if we can be open to other people's pilgrimages and walk with them and learn from them, yes, and that's a perfect example of that.
Speaker 2:I had a gentleman come in. Well, he was a baby priest, even though he was only a priest for about a week, but he was my age and his wife had passed away and she had a long illness and while she was going through this journey they discussed, you know um. He wanted to be a priest. So when she passed away he went to the seminary. He had grandkids and he came in and he was just this was his um uh gift or nation gift to himself?
Speaker 2:I guess was to come here and experience the Basilica and so forth. So just all sorts of unique experiences, and I learned a lot from him that day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to ask if you had any famous visitors, but actually the more exciting stories are probably the ordinary people rather than the famous people and, honestly, we did have a lot of, especially on football days.
Speaker 2:Somebody would come through, or politicians or things like that, but they are surrounded so much by guards and security that we really didn't get to see very much of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were protected, or I didn't.
Speaker 2:Maybe some other people.
Speaker 1:Which is too bad, because you should have given the tour, because they had a lot to learn, they should have learned from you. But yeah, it's actually usually probably the ordinary people, absolutely that are yes, and every day was different.
Speaker 2:You never knew what was. You never knew who was going to walk through that door. Yeah, you never knew who was going to walk through that door in a day you know and what they were going to bring to you or what you were going to give to them. Yeah, it was just really exciting.
Speaker 1:For the school trips. What were the kids like? What do you think the kids' favorite parts were? What did you all do so that like to engage kids in the Basilica in history.
Speaker 2:The little preschool on campus was so cute, they would come, and this was not my idea, this was the teacher's. I opened the doors of the basilica at 9 o'clock and, you know, unlocked them and looked outside and all these kids are laying on their back in the circle drive of the Basilica drawing the spires. So then, then, eventually they would come in and they, you know, I went back to my desk and answer my phone calls and stuff and I came out. They're laying on the floor again in the Basilica on their backs, but they're drawing the angels on the ceiling and you know they.
Speaker 2:They have their little walkthrough and the teachers handled most of it, but one time they would usually come in the spring. One spring I got this letter in the mail and it was this drawing and I'm so sorry. I pulled the tulips when I didn't notice they were gone. I called the teacher. I said he didn't need to do that and he goes. Well, we want to do it.
Speaker 1:He needed to do it.
Speaker 2:So I guess they pick some flowers on the way out. But um sweet Uh, but they uh. But then when you got into middle school and high school they were very interested in the altar, of course, is the main altar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:That's another podcast. Yeah, they knew. They either talked about or knew some some things about how the liturgy went and what this was for, and so forth. So they would have great questions. I bet, yeah, I bet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and little sponges, yes, even the middle schoolers, you know.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Can you talk a little bit about the crypt? Was the crypt ever on the tour, or?
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people don't even know the crypt exists. When we would take people down to the Bishop's Museum, that would be part of the tour down there we would walk out into the, which is really the Sacred Heart, parish.
Speaker 1:Church down there.
Speaker 2:We would walk down there and show them Brown.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to remember Orestes Brown, thank you.
Speaker 2:His final resting place is down there, and explain that it really is the oldest parish church in South Bend, wow, and how it's different from the university church upstairs. Yeah and so, yeah, we would, you know, we would take a circle. So much to see yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. Well, I've really appreciated our conversation. I've enjoyed it. Is you have one more book to recommend?
Speaker 2:this is out of print, but this was the aspire of faith. The university of notre dame sacred heart church, by thomas j schlereth, I believe is how you pronounce his name S-C-H-L-E-R-E-T-H. But this was kind of our Bible, even though it was out of print and I went online before I came over here today.
Speaker 1:Is it on eBay?
Speaker 2:You can still grab them. But, boy, this is another gem. Gem it has um the history all the way from the log chapel wow, up to probably the 1960s in here. Wow, so, um, this was beautiful uh, what I gave to each of our guides to to mull over every time that somebody signed up.
Speaker 1:So yes, yeah, so there's so much, I think also just remembering that, for all the beauty and the tombs and everything that's there, it really does remain an active worship place and it's where the students. I think it's so edifying to see the students praying there, to see the students going to confession. The life of the university was healthy when there were very long lines of confession, packed daily mass, and it's just.
Speaker 1:it remains such a beautiful testament to the faith of the student body, and that's really what strikes me now, even more than the beauty Sometimes when I walk in, is the beauty of that faith that's lived out in the basilica. So it's really yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, the sacraments that are celebrated yes, and it's really yeah, the sacraments that are celebrated, yes, and it was a very special, special place to have spent six years.
Speaker 1:I loved it.
Speaker 2:So, well.
Speaker 1:Thank you, sue Listeners. We invite you to the Sacred Heart Basilica at the University of Notre Dame to, if you haven't been up to the campus, to come and visit to pray with us there and to share this podcast episode with somebody who might want to come or visit to pray with us there. And to share this podcast episode with somebody who might want to come, or just to hear the other side of the pilgrimage experience, as someone who received pilgrims but then also was a pilgrim herself when she heard the pilgrim stories.
Speaker 1:And call ahead and get a tour. That's right. Call ahead and get a tour or go online, yes. So thanks, listeners, listeners. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for a future season. We are wrapping up this first season and our future season is going to concentrate on the jubilee year, so details to follow about that. But thanks so much, sue thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
