In Via
Planning a trip? Or just on the pilgrimage of daily living? We are the podcast at the intersection of faith and travel, assisting you on the journey to encounter Christ. Hear stories, discover travel tips, and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we’ll show you that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome, Lourdes, Mexico City, or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you - right there in your car, on your run, or in the middle of your workday.
In Via
The Camino: The Best and Worst Thing (Before & After with Angie Bosio)
Walking for hundreds of miles on pilgrimage sounds like the best and worst thing - and that's what attracted Angie Bosio to the Camino. In this unique episode, Angie sits down with us before and after her journey! She shares what she expects to be the best and worst parts of the trip - and returns to tell us whether she was right. She also reveals why she was doing the "minimum" - tune in to find out whether she regrets that decision.
Fresh from the Way, Angie recounts not only her experiences, but more importantly, the lessons she took away from the journey. From the awe of the pilgrim Mass and the botafumiero's swing, to the interior battles and the community that formed from shared adversity, prayer, and acts of kindness, Angie gives testament to the Camino's transformative power.
Join us for a conversation that not only explores a particular Camino but also pulls out of the particular a greater understanding of life's grand Camino.
You can find Angie and her saint magnets at www.angiessaintmagnets.com and on IG at @angies_saint_magnets.
Welcome to In Via the podcast where we're navigating the pilgrimage of life. We are all in via on the way and we are learning a lot as we go. I'm your host, joan Watson. Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we'll see that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you right there in your car, on your run or in the middle of your work day. Welcome back everybody. Welcome to In Via the podcast, where we are navigating the pilgrimage of daily life. And I am excited today to be speaking with an old friend, Angie Bosio, as Angie prepares to go on the Camino. This is a little different episode. We're going to do kind of pre-Camino discussion with Angie. Then we're going to check back in with her when she gets back. So hi, Angie.
Angie:Hi Joannie, how are you? I'm doing?
Joan:great. How are you doing? I'm good. I know all about you. I know every single thing there is to know about Angie Bosio. Well, I really don't, but that's okay. But we always start these episodes where I have a guest asking our guest to tell us a little bit about themselves, and I always give you the tricky assignment of, if you could tell our listeners three sentences about yourself to introduce yourself, what would you tell our listeners about Angie?
Angie:Well, in three sentences, I am a youth ministry professional in the Catholic Church. I do that because I love. Obviously I love Jesus. I love helping young people discover how much Jesus loves them. I also have a little flair for adventure, and so it's always an adventure working with youth and also being able to help them just grow in themselves and their faith through experiences and an artist.
Joan:Those were very long sentences. I give you great credit for telling us a lot about yourself in those three sentences I am going to follow up with. When you say you're an artist, what kind of artist are?
Angie:you, I do. I've got a little business. I started about five years ago where I draw original images of the saints it's Angie's saint Magnets, and they are kind of caricatures or more stylized drawings of our saints to be able to have as gifts and sacramentals, just a way to remember our saints and who they are and what they do for us.
Joan:I love Angie's saint Magnets, which this wasn't intended to be a commercial, but now it's about to be. It's because they remind me that the saints are my friends, and they depict the saints as so relatable and so human that sometimes our stained windows or our statues or our holy cards don't. And I just love your saint Magnets reminding me that the saints are in this with me, that they've run the race before me, which is all part of pilgrimage too. Right, that's when we go in pilgrimage, we're in this great cloud of witnesses, and so thank you for doing this. How could people find your saint Magnets?
Angie:I have a website. It's www. angiessaintmagnets. com, and Angie's is plural, without an apostrophe, so there's two S's right next to each other in the middle of that. I also mine Facebook and Instagram.
Joan:And we will put links in our show notes so people can find Angie's Saint Magnets. Angie, you're about to do a trip, about to go on a pilgrimage with a saint going to see the tomb of a saint perhaps the most famous pilgrimage to a tomb of a saint there ever has been. You're about to do the Camino. When did you first hear about the Way of St James, about the Camino, and maybe tell us a little bit about what you know about it and why it attracted you when you first heard about the Camino?
Angie:I first heard about the Camino probably about 2009, 2010. A really good friend of mine had entered the Dominican Order and he and a friend of his in the order had decided that when they became ordained priests, they were going to do the Camino this thing they just heard about, and so he's telling me all about it, and I was in the middle of preparing for and doing three. I had done three, or was in the middle of doing, three half marathons during those years two in Nashville and one in Kansas City and I've been training for those. I walked them. I don't run, I walk and so I knew what distance walking felt like and, at the same time, fascinated me and made me I wanted to do it, and I was repulsed and didn't want to do it. At the same time, I thought that is the best and worst thing I've ever heard of in my life. So I immediately started reading books about it and my assumptions were confirmed on both sides and so kind of put it away as well. This isn't anything that's going to happen anytime soon, but it's always as it's put it, as a bucket list item, Because another thing that I discovered and I still am quite young for someone to do the Camino. Camino is full of a lot of really old people See the people that have a lot of times really really young people, like in gap year times of life or people who have retired and I feel really good about the people who retired parts because they're older than me and so there's still I have a chance at not dying doing this or just feeling miserable the whole time. So I was supposed to go in 2020, I don't know if I'm getting ahead of us in the questions, but I was supposed to go in 2020 with some former students in mind, so kind of fast forward 10 years.
Angie:When I heard about it, I had some students that had state connected as friends through college and when they all graduated from college they were going to reconnect and go on the Camino in May of 2020. And I got wind of this and sort of invited myself on the trip and because I was wanting to do it, I was kind of sitting my sights on it, but I'm like I don't want to do this alone, but I don't want to do it with a group. Like I don't know how to do this, I don't know what I want, so but I kind of this kind of seems good because they are. I'm not leading them, they're not my students, they're adults. We're all on our own pilgrimage, but it's nice to be on the path with knowing that there's people you can check in with, people that you're familiar with. You've kind of got a safety net.
Angie:That didn't work out for reasons that we don't have to talk about. We all know, so we did not do the Camino in 2020. No-transcript. Once again kind of put it on hold and then heard about a priest here in Nashville who announced that he was going to lead a communal pilgrimage in back in 2021, about two years ago. It was time two years ago and I was like this is it, this is the one I'm gonna do.
Joan:Why did you decide to do it Like what? I guess how much of cause you could do different parts of the Camino, you can do different distances. How much are you doing and why did you decide to do it this way? Because I know, as we continue this podcast, we're gonna talk to other people who've done the Camino. Different people do it different ways. What are you doing and why?
Angie:So I'm doing the very minimum Camino this time say this time, cause I do plan to go back and do a longer journey, longer pilgrimage. This is a Camino I love. I am a much more adventurous person in my head than I am in reality and so doing this with a group, with a tour, and to say, just doing the last 100 kilometers, I'm doing the minimum with a tour group and the safety of that, to be able to kind of check it out, to know where I'm sleeping every night, to have my bags I'll admit my bags are gonna be carried forward and I don't know the people that I'm going with, which I'm excited about, but we're all from Tennessee, we're all Catholic, we all have this chaplain in common on this leading the pilgrimage. So we're gonna be in fellowship and I look forward to that, to just the friendships and the new relationships that are gonna grow from this experience of all of us who come from a common place that are gonna come home to the same place, though we were in different parishes, different parts of Tin and Middleton, a sea, everyone, everything I've read there's a lot of debate on what makes a pilgrim, and even in the movie, The Way, I just rewatched it because I'm gonna screen it for my students and their families this Sunday to kind of help them introduce them what I'm going to be doing, to share that with them.
Angie:They kind of do a little play on like what's a pilgrim and what makes a pilgrim, and the common theme, the thing that we all have to remember, is that it's your pilgrimage, it's your Camino, and so you're gonna do it the way that you can do it and what works in your time of life, what works the time that you have and what fits with who you are. And so this is my Camino. It's not the Camino I thought I would do when I first heard about it, but it's a Camino I'm doing and I'm so excited to get started next week.
Joan:I love it. I love it. This is a little different episode because we are actually going to come back and talk to Angie after she does the Camino and so before we close, you've given us a little intro of what you're about to do. I wanna kind of focus on. You said when you first found out about it it's the best and worst thing, which I love. I love that phrasing and I love that description. So I wanna look at both of those things. Worst, what do you think will be the hardest part of this Camino?
Angie:We have two days in our schedule. We'll be on the Camino for six days, but it's not six days doing 10 miles, so we're gonna work out. We have two days in the middle that are 18 miles long. I'm a little concerned about that. Positive but concerned. I also am worried about it raining and so the worst day, the worst thing, would be if it rained on one of those 18 mile days. I'm prepared for that. I've backpacked before. I've trained for half marathons in the rain. I have the right equipment for that. I'd prefer to carry it and never use it. And I looked at the weather. I've been obsessively tracking the weather in Spain and it's been beautiful and like pretty much the way it has been here in Tennessee. And I just looked at the. Our week of travel next week is starting to creep into the 10 day forecast. And Tuesday, wednesday, we get there on Thursday, tuesday, wednesday 50% chance of rain after weeks and weeks of sunshine. So we'll see, we'll see. Here we go. Yeah, here we go.
Joan:So, on the flip side of that, what do you think will be the best? Or I guess I would say, what do you think will be the most fulfilling part of the Camino? What's your expectation?
Angie:My expectation is to have very little expectations.
Angie:I am a planner and I've intentionally kind of laid off of that but this other than to physically prepare and spiritually prepare.
Angie:But as far as what my expectations are, even my intentions, going, I have reasons that I'm going and I have things that you know. I've been in ministry for 25 years and a lot has changed, and so I'm looking forward to just some space to breathe and to think about, reflect and to dream for the future. But also I'm looking forward to being surprised by God, because that's what I've found in traveling in the past and for different avenues is that you know God, what God, how God is going to, what he's going to show me and surprise me with, is what I'm looking forward to, and so I want to be mindful of being where I am and being fully present in the moment, rather than anticipating or worrying about this or that, which is part of also the reason why I'm choosing to do this first Camino this way, where I'm not so concerned about where I'm staying, what I'm doing. There's a lot of decisions are being made for me, and that frees me spiritually, which I'm looking forward to.
Joan:Love it. I think that's a great note to end on. You're looking forward to being surprised by God. We are going to. Well, I'm going to be praying for you. Our listeners don't even know that you're going. They're going to find out about it afterwards, but I'm going to tell you, I'm praying for you, I'm excited to talk to you afterwards and I'm going to wish you a very good a very Buon Camino, as they say and we look forward to checking in with you to see what was great, what was hard, once you get back. So thanks for sharing with us, angie, and we look forward to getting to circle back with this when you return. Thank you so much. God bless and listeners.
Joan:That's the first part and we will be tuning in to the second part when Angie gets back. Welcome back everybody. This is the second part of our conversation with Angie. So this episode is a little different than any other episode we've done, where we you just heard about Angie about to leave on the Camino and now we have gone into a little time warp Angie's back from the Camino and she is ready to share with us and we'll get to see if maybe some of the thoughts ring true or what surprised her. So welcome back to the podcast, Angie.
Joan:Thank you, Joannie, it's good to be back. Thanks for having me and you know people who've listened to the podcast for a few episodes know that I like to end the episodes with a little high low disco where you talk about the high point of the trip, the low point of the trip and just a fun, maybe surprising, funny, off the wall thing that happened. We, because this episode's like no other episode we've recorded we are going to start the second part with a high low disco as the trip is fresh in your mind. You pretty much just got back. Could you share your high low disco from your Camino trip?
Angie:Of course, sure, all right. So my high was maybe predictably, maybe not predictably it's not what I thought would have been my high. My high truly was the Mass on Saturday which, the day after we arrived in Santiago, we then had our pilgrim Mass the day after. So we had a night in the hotel. We were able to put on normal clothes, wearing normal blue jeans and a shirt I had, and walk to the cathedral from our hotel and go to mass and the mass was incredible. But the Botafumeiro, that cannot be understated, what that is like to be in there, and we were in the pilgrim section and so it was going over us and it goes so high, it goes so high, it goes higher than the rope. Can you describe for people what?
Joan:that is, if they've never heard of it and they have no idea the word you just said, sure.
Angie:The Botafumeiro is the giant thurible, censer, that's in the Cathedral of St James. That used to. You know, they fill it with incense and it smokes and it takes like nine guys to pull it on this huge pulley. The thing weighs like 300 pounds and it's probably like five feet tall and it swings back and forth. And when they originally created it, when they built the cathedral, it was because the pilgrims coming right off the trail were quite stinky and so it's kind of fumigates that's what they'd say. And so now it's just part of the ceremony, part of the ritual and the celebration, and so it was at the end of Mass. During holy days, like yesterday, it would have been done at the beginning of Mass and then for pilgrim Masses it's pretty much once the liturgy is more or less finished, and then they just run it and then everybody gets really hyped.
Angie:Most people are on their phone. I enough people in my group had their phones out so I took a couple quick pictures and then I just put my phone down and just wanted to enjoy it and it really. It was like I love roller coasters and it was as close to riding a roller coaster and not riding a roller coaster, like just to watch it go overhead and it's smoke, and it did not. It wasn't as fragrant as I thought it would be, or maybe I was just so over simulated in my senses otherwise that I couldn't. The incense wasn't what I smelled, but I did not think I would have predicted that would have been the high points, because it's so cliche, but it really is an incredible experience. So, especially with it going overhead.
Joan:And you mentioned. You mentioned that there's a special section for pilgrims at the pilgrim Mass.
Angie:Yes, so, and I'm gonna mess up, I didn't look up my architecture terms, my church terms, but so you know it's a cathedral, it has the name and I think it's the transept is that the cross? And so across the transept, on both sides of the altar, is where the pilgrims sit, reserved for pilgrims Beautiful, and so you sit there and that's the path of the censor, and so it goes overhead, so you're getting it kind of coming at you versus being, if you're in the name, just watching, or me, you know, watching it, as you would normally sit at mass in a typical church, you would just see it go back and forth. This was going directly overhead, wow.
Joan:So it's pretty intense, yeah, okay, I want to go back to that in a minute, but I want you to share your low and your disco as well, and then I think I have more questions Okay.
Angie:Well, that's what the most interesting thing that happened either. It's just the high. So my low was the second day. Walking on Monday was pretty. After lunch we had 16 miles that day. We had warmed up the day before with a brisk 15 and so we were 16 miles on Tuesday.
Angie:Monday and after lunch I was within like seven miles of being done. I just hit a low point. It was really raining, it was cold, my calves were tightening up, I could feel I had some listers on my feet in a place I wasn't expecting and I was just really not having it and I just kind of was spiraling because I was like this is not even the longest day, it's not even the last day. Can I do this? Like it was. It was really a kind of moment of anxiety and I was able to get myself out of it by praying the rosary, which was a really great experience. But that was definitely the low. There were other hardships, you know, throughout the week, but that was a moment of just still the unknown, and the anxiety of the unknown was still very present at that time, only being so many miles in.
Joan:So yeah, definitely. And then do you have a disco for us?
Angie:A disco moment. Yeah, after Mass on that Saturday we went to to get coffee or chocolate con churros, chocolate milk or, yeah, hot chocolate and churros for lunch and we went to this great little place, cafe Casino, which is a place in Santiago to go get your chocolate con churros and it's really like this. I think it used to be a casino, I don't know. It has very baroque furnishings and designs and we sat in like these little armchairs, this tiny little table which just felt very, very European and very, you know, pointy-toity with our hot chocolates, and it had poured down rain. The minute Mass was over it poured down rains. We stalled a little bit and just watched, looked, walked around the church, walked through the church museum shop and then we're able to go get our churros.
Angie:But I had I'd brought, I'd carry an umbrella. I brought an umbrella with me. The only day I carried it and used it was that Saturday. I used it briefly and so we walk in umbrellas, really wet, and you cannot bring your umbrella to your seat. So they have a little umbrella, stand like a whole, like a little cage for umbrellas, right by the front door and I could see it where I was sitting and I was just so happy and just was in Spain. I was in Santiago. I was like isn't this? You were eating churros.
Angie:This is so the churros and really thick hot chocolate, which is my favorite and like pudding, thick hot chocolate. And I said, wow, you know, only in in Santiago in Europe, you know, they have like a special place for your umbrellas and you can leave them there. You don't have to worry about having them wet in your seat and it's going to be there when I'm ready to leave. And wouldn't you know it, after sitting there for an hour, someone took my umbrella, my utopia Umbrella safety, lots of it. So the fact of it is I was going to leave that umbrella in Spain anyway, I work for a parish. I've worked at a parish for 23 years. I have not bought an umbrella in 23 years, including that umbrella, and so I just recycle umbrellas. And so this umbrella got to travel internationally and now gets to live a full life in Spain.
Joan:So I'm very happy for it. Now you said something interesting. You said it's the only time you use your umbrella and you had thought that the worst part would be so. When we talked to you previously, you said the worst part would be the 18 mile day and the rain. Was that actually the worst part for you? Did it rain on your?
Angie:trip. Those things did happen. Yes, they did. Yes, it rained horribly. The 18 mile day Not the worst. The worst it rained was on the way into Santiago, which is completely different experience, but it did rain a lot. I did not bring an umbrella. I didn't bring the umbrella on the Camino. I wanted my hands to be free. Well, I needed to be free because I was using walking sticks and so trekking poles, so I needed the trekking poles more than I needed the umbrella. There were other people in our group who did use an umbrella. I used. I switched back and forth between a poncho depending on the temperature, and so the poncho when it was warmer, and then, when it was looking like it was going to be in the 50s, I switched to rain pants and a rain jacket, and the rain jacket failed pretty miserably as a jacket or rain jacket, so it was bad. Right, a review on that product. Yes, it's something that I can return, so we'll be having a conversation.
Joan:This podcast is not sponsored by that raincoat. It's company. I'll tell you that. Yeah.
Angie:So anyway, yes, it did rain horribly the 18 mile day, so my worst fears were realized and I survived them, and so that's great.
Joan:I would still do it again. When we asked you oh, I'm not to that question yet. No, I'm so sorry. Well, I'm just teasing. When I asked you what the, what your expectation for the most fulfilling part was, you said you were trying not to have expectations and you look forward to being surprised by God. Number one I think we already know that he did surprise you by a high that you weren't expecting. Right, you didn't expect the pilgrim mass to be the high, but can you talk more about the? Do you? Did he surprise you was? Was that kind of a hallmark of this trip? It?
Angie:was, but it wasn't. I kept kind of looking for the surprise, and so it didn't really hit me until I was actually back home and really kind of reflecting on everything, because I had some awesome conversations, I had some incredible times of personal quiet, reflection, times of prayer, and so all those things and those are all things that are not unique in my life, and so I didn't need to go on the Camino to have those things. But for those things to happen at that time we're we're definitely things I had expected and was pleased to be able to encounter. But what really to be my surprise, with the real fruit and the real gift and surprise of the trip, is the community that formed among the people that went on this trip, and what's special about that is, especially when you're especially someone who works in ministry and leads trips for mostly young people is that these this is, this was a group of 30 adults who, without a whole lot of coaching, completely understood the assignment, and what I mean by that is I'm pretty sure everybody went to confession before we, we left the country.
Angie:If those that didn't, we had an opportunity in Madrid. We first arrived and we're touring the cathedral there. Everyone most people were, we didn't know each other. Like there were obviously several couples that traveled together, there were a couple families that traveled together, but as an outside of that there weren't large groups that knew each other. So we were all getting to know each other and so we were all maybe a little more careful, but there wasn't any baggage that was brought with that with existing relationships.
Angie:There can be there can be gifts with that, but there also could be baggage with that, and so there was no nothing was brought, no past grievances or arguments or anything that came along, and everyone was just kind of worked hard to get there, was getting ready to do something hard for Jesus, and knew that and that's where they were. And so there was no entitlement, there was no rudeness, there was no like, there was so much gratitude. We were out schlepping 15, 16, 18 miles a day in the rain, showing up at these really nice hotels just so we can get a shower and have food put in front of us, and there was nothing but gratitude. There was no concern about what are we eating or am I going to like it or it gets, just just thank you, just a lot of humility, and also because of those new relationships and those new building friendships. Now, in this really state of grace, I have never which is a little shame to say, but I've never been so careful to protect my grace as I had been on that trip and I was aware of that, like that revelation was happening with, obviously, but on Tuesday I couldn't know that that was ultimately going to be the big takeaway, you know, coming home with so many things to experience and we all, without talking about it, kind of feel that Like we have a WhatsApp chat.
Angie:That was well, first it was supposed to be just to give us information and it kind of, within two days, kind of disintegrated into a group chat with 30 people that are, you know, very fun people, people that have a lot of joy in life, and so I say all those things like this was not a boring, you know, not a, you know, a solemn or boring trip.
Angie:And so then new chats had to be made that were locked so only the administrators of the chat could give us our details for the next day and not have to sift through 20 or 30 responses or requests for ibuprofen or whatever that was going on between people while we were all in our rooms at night. So, and throughout the day and sharing pictures from the end of the day, and so that has continued, and so pictures have been shared and stories, and people have already met up for dinner and just all these things have happened, and so we're spread out across the states. There Most of the people are from middle Tennessee, but we had some folks from Memphis and Knoxville on the trip as well, and so hopefully we're able to stay in touch and connect with them throughout the year.
Joan:I love this because it is like the greatest manifestation of what I've preached. That pilgrimage is this microcosm of life and if we can view life in this way, how would we live life differently if we saw life as a pilgrimage? And what you saw on this pilgrimage in such a beautiful way is the Christian life, well lived in community, that you're not alone. You're on this pilgrimage, whether it's the Camino or whether it's life. You're on this pilgrimage with others that are there to support you. We should be supporting, not tearing each other down. We should be living life with gratitude. We should be living life with humility and and just this, this way of approaching life, that the Camino in such a beautiful way, like we can see it on other pilgrimages.
Joan:But I think the difficulty of the Camino brings that to the forefront in such a beautiful way, that this is the body of Christ. And you know, whether it's borrowing Ibu profen from somebody or sharing a laugh, or cheering someone up because they're in a rough spot and you might not be in a rough spot, right. Whether it's helping somebody stay on the path all of these things we can compare to the Christian life. Right. Your life is youth ministry. You help kids stay on the path all the time of the Christian life Right. And so to be able to experience this in such a tangible way and then take it into our lives and say how can I live my life like this? I'm not on a path to Santiago, but I am on a path to heaven and how can I see my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ as pilgrims with me, and how does that change the way I live?
Angie:Yeah, Thank you.
Joan:You know what you'd mentioned in the previous interview about like living in the present moment, which I think is a very difficult thing to do on this pilgrimage of life. On the Camino, was it difficult to live in the present moment? You kind of talked about how you, you know, you were ready just to go in and be present and not have expectations. And what was that like on a daily basis? What were the days like?
Angie:Well, I found it easy to be in the present moment and having to, because all we had to do was walk, which is not a small thing, and whether you were having a good time walking or a bad time walking, you were stuck walking and you know, and you can, kind of you can start to get stripped down to kind of see where your, where your temptations are, or where your not temptations, not triggers, but but, like you know, I was, you know, that day I was in a bad mood and I was like, well, I can't just go watch, I can't go stream a show or have a snack, I just got to keep doing this. So what else am I going to do? I was like, oh well, I can pray. Maybe that'll, you know, help ease, ease my mind and to even see how that anxiety affected my entire body.
Angie:Like you know, I never stopped I'm just alone walking and I could feel the tension in my legs. I could feel, you know, your, your heart rate goes up unnecessarily. You know I'm already kind of doing cardio, but I could, it was more in. My joints were seizing up, and so it was like this is, this is bad, this is 100% bad, and it's all in my head.
Joan:And so so, having to kind of self awareness, yeah, how many would have had if you could distract yourself with, like you said, like in this we're in today, we can distract ourselves so much that we're not even aware of our actual feelings and you couldn't escape it. You couldn't escape the weakness, you couldn't escape your own thoughts.
Angie:Yeah, yeah, and. And so to turn to, to prayer, turn to the Lord, turn to Mary, you know, in that moment, because I knew if I could get to where I was five miles away from the destination. I'd been training up to five miles. And so I was like, well, now I'm home. At that point, like five miles is like nothing. And so I was in this two mile purgatory almost of like, how do I? I got a breakthrough of this. I'm, I'm not going to make those five miles, yeah.
Joan:Yeah, you, you talked before you left about how you were doing. We would say the very minimum, but that you plan to go back again and do you regret doing the very minimum, or how do you view this trip and and are you still thinking about going back?
Angie:Yes. So, yes, I'm thinking about going back. I do not regret doing the very minimum. Everybody should do this, everybody If. Because I could have found myself in a trap of never doing it If I couldn't do the whole thing right. I think a lot of people feel that way and and that's okay. That's a way to feel, but in the and if there's a chance that you won't do it because you've put this huge expectation on it and this huge amount of pressure on it and you don't have time for that because you're you're busy and you can take five, six weeks away from their life to go do this.
Angie:To do a 10 day pilgrimage is such a gift and I would rather like. I'm definitely planning on going back and I want to bring other people for the short one. I hope to one day be able to go back and do a longer one, whether it's the full French or another complete route. There's a lot of shorter routes also, but if, for whatever reason, I was told you could either go back once and go for six weeks and do 500 miles or you could, every three years or so, go and do this short one, I would do the short one every three years because the reset, what, what five days on the Camino does, like I can't imagine what 30 days would do, right, and so that's definitely worth pursuing.
Angie:But if all you can do is five days, then, goodness gracious, please go do those five days, like absolutely you should do that. That there is. It's not easy, it's not a, it's not a lazy way out, it's not a comp out, it is an approved pilgrimage. You get the, you get the certificate, none of that matters. It is enough time to really be able to enter into a different, a different rhythm of life and, you know, learn some things and be kind of emptied out and fill back up all at the same time.
Joan:Yeah, it's certainly harder than anything I've ever done, so I think it's. It's. That's why I was even reluctant to use the words very minimum, right, because and the Lord works with it all and it's again, it's certainly more than most of us have ever done. You know, we talked before about, like it's, your Camino and it's no one else's Camino, it's your Camino.
Joan:What advice would you have for someone thinking and you already said you have to go? But if someone's thinking about the Camino other than go, do it, what advice would you have for someone?
Angie:I would say, practically speaking, I cannot emphasize enough the hills because that was not emphasize enough for me and the altitude. So the one thing I didn't do, practically because I didn't think to, I went up hills in Nashville and I walked five miles several times a week. I went to visit a treadmill at all and a little bit of cardio. Even though it's just walking, you need to work up some cardio and and so, practically speaking, those should be some, some minimums to do is to work me walking three to five miles as many times a week as you can, daily if you can, and hit a gym, hit some cardio so that your lung capacity is ready. Other than that, just be prepared for just some time with yourself and be prepared in prayer, be prepared with the sacraments and we were very fortunate to be in a group with a chapel and we could have Mass every day and so go to daily Mass, be with the sacraments, be prepared to enter into prayer and don't bring distractions.
Angie:Don't bring I didn't have headphones. A lot of people do. Not many people in our trip did. A lot of people do just to pass the time and I didn't want to just pass the time. I wanted to be present in the time, and so when I trained, I trained that way, you know I wanted to be aware of my surroundings, I wanted to hear the birds and just know what was going on around me, but also be, you know, just aware of it and also present to it at the same time.
Joan:So I can't imagine I live such a distracted life and I live such a noisy life where I'm always listening to music or listening to a podcast, or I can't imagine being alone with my thoughts for that long and being alone with the Lord and that's a terrible thing that I can't imagine. That it makes me want to go do the communal right now.
Joan:But, just that idea that even when I exercise every morning I'm I have air pods on. You know I'm listening to, even if I'm praying you know, praying the rosary I usually do it audio listening to someone else pray the rosary, and so that's a great commission for us. I think that's great advice and I admire you for for doing it that way. Can you explain? So? You said that your high point was that pilgrim mass, which in a sense seemed very obvious. But whether you speak more about that, or can you explain what it was like to walk into, to like to arrive at the cathedral that day before the mass, and can can you talk about that?
Angie:Yes, yes, I'd love to, and that really was what I would have expected the high point to be, versus the next day, but it was. It was a little anticlimactic in that we were kind of shepherded through and so so, to kind of back up, we arrive and it's it's much. Since COVID, things have changed, and so if you've seen the movie the Way or have seen other videos from prior to 2020, your approach to the cathedral has forever changed, and so we don't go through the front doors, which I think was the first thing. That kind of threw me off and I was like what's happening? Because I was wanting to walk up upon the facade and walk through those front doors and that's closed and we don't do that anymore, and so what you do instead is incredible, and unfortunately, I'm someone that kind of anticipates things, and so I was like I don't know what this is, and so I don't know what I think about it. So we, we go into this.
Angie:The West thing was the, the Western entrance, which is the pilgrims entrance, and we kind of get shuffled into a line and things are just happening to us and they're incredible things, but things I didn't know were going to happen, and so all and then and then you no pictures, no pictures. And there's people all over the place telling no pictures. We have a whole thread in our WhatsApp called no pictures of all the pictures we took during this time. So we're in line, and what we're in line for because it's it's a lot of shh and no pictures. So I was like I don't know what's happening, what we're in line for it was explained to us, but still so, I'm not going to diss my guides, but so you're just not prepared for, like, what is going to happen is we're going to go visit the tomb of St James, so that that should be the high point.
Angie:But there was just too much else going on In addition to the horrible rainstorm that we experienced. After lunch to walk down into Santiago the worst rain we had all week, if you imagine, if hail, if, if rain gets the point where it's as cold as it can possibly be, it as hard as it can possibly be and not be hail, that was the rain we had coming down into Santiago. So, after we'd kind of dried out at lunch, we were just soaked and my feet were wet and all I could think about is I want to go see the front of the church and take my picture, and then I want to go change, and then I want to do all this stuff.
Angie:But that's not what happened. So we go kind of get herded into a single file line which is, eventually we're going to go below the altar to the tomb of St James, and so the tomb rests directly below the Bald Aquino and just everything that's in there the cathedral. So we go down down. If you've ever been to Bethlehem, it's very similar to when you go to see the birthplace of Christ, and so it's just like that. And so three at a time we're able to pause and kneel and pray in front of the tomb and take a really quick picture and then go on. And so then we go back up out, we're back in the sanctuary area and then we do a thing which I had never heard of.
Angie:Our guides were referencing them and I thought I'd read everything about the Camimo beforehand and I missed this. Then we went up and we climbed up these stairs. We go up above, Like we are in the structure of the altar where there is a statue of St James, and you go behind him and you give him a hug to thank him, and so we got to go up and hug St James and no pictures there. And then we came back down the other side and then we're, it's kind of all. We got as far as looking at the church that day and then we're outside and then we got a picture.
Angie:Then we were out in the front and took some pictures to the group picture. Our passports were sent to the pilgrims office to be turned in for us to get our certificates and then we went to the hotel. So upon arrival we did a very brisk. It was a very structured kind of cattle call situation to go and do these very important things. But there was a lot of distraction involved in that and not sure where to be and being yelled at and all that stuff.
Joan:So it was all part of the planning Right, so the next day you were able to process it in a lot like in your own way yes. And it was able. That makes complete sense.
Angie:Yes.
Joan:Yes.
Angie:But I had. I had right, we were in line and kind of it got settled and it made a corner. I was at a point where I was right up against on the side of the altar and could see the botafumeiro. So I grabbed a quick picture to send. I know I sent you a copy and I sent. I had my parents and my sister on a thread and so that was my proof of life, proof of arrival for everyone to know I was off.
Joan:I was safe.
Angie:I did it and so I just said that's a couple of people with no comment. So that was the first no pictures picture I took, and then I kind of got a little bold and took some other ones.
Joan:I love it. I love it. So, as we wrap up, I first want to thank you for sharing these experiences, and this might be too big of a question to end on. But how has the experience of this pilgrimage changed you and your changed you and your approach to, to life, or to the church or to others? Again, this might be a big, loaded question. It's also just a big question that you can, you know, answer with whatever, whatever story you haven't been able to tell, but you know, I can tell that this experience has changed you, and and how has it?
Angie:I guess, I hope it has changed me in a way more patience and can give more space for certainly, especially with what I do to allow space for other people to have their experience. And so I think as catechists, as ministers, we can get kind of wrapped up in the experience that people should be having and not allowing the individuals to have their experience wherever it is, and so in programming to be sure that there is space for that, that we're not, that I'm not rushing people or too anxious about getting to the next thing or even doing the thing correctly, whatever. That means that the experience is the experience. And I felt like I was pretty good at that before until I got into a place where I didn't have to rush to be somewhere and that was very free and very revealing of the rush, rush, rush I put on myself and by virtue of that I do impose on others, fairly or unfairly. Sometimes there's times where that's necessary, most the time it's not, and so to be more careful with that and be a better guide and shepherd for others that are in my care.
Angie:Also, I got a little sick after the trip and so I haven't been able to do this immediately, but definitely going for walks and going for the walks with the intention of a prayer and so, and like a, you know, I'm going for a minimum of like a three hour walk, you know, a couple times a month, if I can, at least once a week. That's a big chunk of time and that also goes with that busyness and that rushing, and that was part of the panic of preparing to go was, and we all kind of came up in conversation because none of us felt prepared. It was like who has time to go walk for four miles? You know really every day if you're really going to to get in shape for this. No one does. And so to not to not look at it that way anymore, not that I have to do this, but I get to do this.
Angie:And and to what can I do? How can I make that time happen? And that is easier when it's not up against some kind of requirements or or a metric that I'm trying to match, to make sure I can do a thing that I'm not sure I can do, but to to do it for the pure enjoyment of it and be able to clear enough time. But I'm not worried about where do I need to be next, because that's always the thing when do I need to be next? I can. I can do this for 45 minutes and then I gotta be ready for the next thing.
Angie:And so on a Saturday, on a Sunday, can I carve out four hours or so that are sacred, that are precious, to go do something where I can completely just kind of lose, lose sense of time, lose sense of obligations or or pressure or stress or distractions, and just be, because that's the Camino and that's how you can bring the Camino home too, and so taking better care of myself so I can take better care of others as well, yeah, I love that because we think of the Camino, having this destination of St James's tomb right, but that the Camino is called the way for a reason, that and, and like you said before, it's your Camino.
Joan:And so this idea that it's not so much about the destination as our disposition on the Camino and our disposition, and then that translates into the Christian life. And so you know, people we know and people we meet, everybody has a different journey through this life and people have different life experiences. They have different crosses and we can be so quick to to judge people, we can be so quick to think we know what's best for them and to think we know how to shepherd them on the Camino, but it's their Camino and we can walk with them and we can turn them around when they get turned around. But we have to have that space to allow people it's a disposition, not the destination and less the destinations have in which, of course, that's the important destination, but this idea that it's your Camino and I'm going to walk with you and I'm going to accompany you, but I don't ultimately know what's going on in that head of yours and I'm going to accompany you on this trip, but that's the most important thing, that's what you need is my accompaniment. So I love how you know both of those things go together too, that we can.
Joan:We can press so much into our lives that we're not even allowing ourselves to just be on the journey and just take one thing at a time and just enjoy life too. So thank you, angie, thank you for sharing. It's been a joy, a kind of unique privilege to hear from you before and then after, and I know you've made me want to go on the Camino. I've been thinking about it for a while, and one of my hurdles has been how do I do the whole thing? And so you've helped me kind of take that next step of maybe it's not the whole thing and that's okay, and to allow the Lord to work with you, know what he wants to do, do with it, and so thanks for encouraging me in that too.
Angie:You're welcome. Thanks for allowing me to share. This has been a real privilege.
Joan:Well, listeners, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Invia and continue to tune in and hear about people's pilgrimages, hear more about pilgrimage, but ultimately hear about how we're all on this great pilgrimage of life. We're navigating it together and we're learning a lot as we go. So God bless you and we will talk again soon.
