In Via
Planning a trip? Or just on the pilgrimage of daily living? We are the podcast at the intersection of faith and travel, assisting you on the journey to encounter Christ. Hear stories, discover travel tips, and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we’ll show you that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome, Lourdes, Mexico City, or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you - right there in your car, on your run, or in the middle of your workday.
In Via
The Unexpecteds on Pilgrimage with Rachel Gilman
To go on pilgrimage means to be open to surprises! In this episode, I chat with Rachel Gilman, the director of Youth Ministry for the Archdiocese of Indianapolis. Rachel and I talk about her experiences both in Italy and on World Youth Day. We revisit Rachel's profound encounters with the churches, saints, and relics of Rome, plus the epiphanic moment she had in a quiet, empty church in Lisbon.
Join us as we discuss the significance of being open to the small gifts from God and the lessons we learn when we listen to those little nudges from the Lord.
Welcome to In Via the podcast where we're navigating the pilgrimage of life. We are all "in via on the way and we are learning a lot as we go. I'm your host, Joan Watson. Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we'll see that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you right there in your car, on your run or in the middle of your workday. Welcome back everybody to In Via, the podcast where we are navigating the pilgrimage of daily life. And today to talk about pilgrimage, to talk about daily life, is my friend. I think I'm allowed to call you my friend, my friend Rachel Gilman, the Director of Youth Ministry for the Archdiocese of Indianapolis. Hello, Rachel.
Rachel Gilman:Hi, yes, you can definitely call me a friend, Joan. We're there.
Joan Watson:We've gone through battle together and we've survived and now we're friends. So, Rachel, I want to tell our audience how I first met you. I first met Rachel at the O'Hare airport as she got off a bus. It seems very long ago, but Rachel was the leader for Archindy's World Youth Day trip, and so Rachel and I together led 190 odd people and 190, right I?
Rachel Gilman:think 182 or something 182.
Joan Watson:Okay, I realize it sounded like I said that all those people were odd, and that's not what I meant. Not 190 odd people, what, but 190-ish, so 180-ish people through Lisbon, and it was wonderful, and so Rachel and I bonded over that. So today, I want to start by sharing with our audience who Rachel is, because I know a little bit about Rachel. But, Rachel, if you could describe yourself in three sentences, only three sentences, what would those sentences be?
Rachel Gilman:Yeah, okay, sentence one I would say that I love to laugh, and you probably hear this throughout the podcast. I'm a major giggler, but I just find joy in life, like everywhere, so laughter is my expression of that. Two, I like to call myself a fun, competitive person. So I am actually over-competitive in like everything I do, but I always tell myself there's a threshold, so I have to have fun and make sure other people are having fun. But if you were to ask my closest friends, they'd be like oh yeah, she's super competitive. So I try to hide it but it's kind of hard to. And then number three I've been described as like already living a fantastic retired woman's life because I love to do puzzles and paint by numbers and read, and so my friends would like to make fun of me because I'll sit on my couch and do a puzzle and watch TV and they're like you're set, you're ready to go.
Joan Watson:I love it. I love it. I can see like I didn't even know those things about you before we went to World Youth Day and I can see why we got along so well. I love that that sounds like an ideal night, like why not stay home and do a puzzle, and like that sounds lovely. But also your gift of laughter is such a joy and such a gift for others and so I want to affirm you in that I think that's a gift from God, that it really, I think, got us through a lot and I think it gets you like I think it gets. I think approaching life that way is just the better way to approach life, like just with joy, and even when stuff is frustrating, and even when stuff is hard, like okay, like the Lord's got it, we'll get through it, like we'll survive. So that was a gift to me. So thank you for being a laugher, oh thank you, that's sweet, yeah, I agree though.
Joan Watson:So, Rachel, you went to World Youth Day, but you've been on pilgrimage even before that, so would you just like tell me a little bit about maybe your first pilgrimage, or your favorite pilgrimage, or a pilgrimage that stands out to you?
Rachel Gilman:Yeah, yeah, I my very first pilgrimage. I went on, I believe, a summer of 2019. And we went to Italy with my parish. I was working there as a youth minister at the time, but I decided to go for myself, so I paid the money. I wanted it to be fully a pilgrimage experience, even though I was technically on staff, and decided to go, and so we went to Rome, and then we went to Assisi, and then Florence and then Siena. So we did a pretty good tour of Italy. I think end of being about 10 days long in total, but just phenomenal experience, beautiful, and this was your first time.
Joan Watson:this was your first time in Italy, then.
Rachel Gilman:No, actually that was my second time. The first time I went I was studying abroad in college, so I very much looked at travel differently. So I had been to all those places except at Assisi and Siena, but literally only went for like two days in a massive like travel backpack around Europe experience.
Rachel Gilman:So it was really, really fun to go back in a prayerful way, because I hadn't really approached it that way. I was trying to see the major sites the first time and just be on vacation and have fun as a 21 year old. So, very different from coming back in my late 20s on a pilgrimage.
Joan Watson:Yes, I mean you were in a different place, spiritually, I'm sure, intellectually, maturity wise. And then did you, would you say like, did you prepare in any different way when you went on pilgrimage, versus going just kind of as a tourist?
Rachel Gilman:Yeah, absolutely yes. I was a lot more intentional just about my preparation when it was a pilgrimage. I mean I would collect prayer intentions from friends and family to bring with me. I also just tried to read more about the saints that I would encounter. So I was trying to get some of the history as well and prepare myself for such a deeper connection to the experiences I was going to have. Where as the first time--i t was very much just like what train am I getting on? And like do I have a map? Because again, this is pretty smart phone time. So I like had paper maps up the wazoo. So like it was more just like how do I get from point A to point B and what are my top three things I want to do? The pilgrimage was way more spiritual, spiritually like at the beginning of my preparation.
Joan Watson:Yeah, I remember talking to you when we were over there about how, like, how did our parents let us go before smartphones? We didn't know what we didn't have, obviously. But I mean, I remember, like when we and I studied abroad, like arriving in a city with no idea where I was going, where I was sleeping that night, and somehow that seemed okay, and now I'd be terrified to let myself do that, much less my children.
Rachel Gilman:I know it's crazy how much things have changed. Like I literally would walk around with a map in front of my face and my whole group would follow me. I like got, became the designated leader and I look back at that now and I'm like that is insane, but I was so confident it didn't matter.
Joan Watson:Yeah, I think it's interesting kind of to reflect on the fact that technology in some ways has made pilgrimage harder and that it's it's a distraction, right, like we can still stay so connected even when we're on pilgrimage and we can.
Joan Watson:You know, even Instagram can still be a distraction when you're on pilgrimage if you have a data plan right, but at the same time it can if we use it well, with Google Maps and maybe Google Translate, it can help us enter into the pilgrimage differently because we don't have to worry about some of the details, right, we can really focus on that spiritual side of things.
Joan Watson:It's just it's interesting to kind of reflect on what technology has done or not done for the spirit of the pilgrim, right, because most of our lives, in most of church history, I should say we didn't have technology to help us on pilgrimage. Yeah, absolutely I agree with that, did you? I guess I hate when people ask a question like what was your favorite part of Rome? Because there's, there's so much, but is there a church or a saint in those four cities that stands out to you that you may be discovered for the first time or rediscovered, or whether it's a saint story or a church, or even you know, an unquote, unquote like sacred place that really sticks out in those four cities as a place of encounter for you.
Rachel Gilman:Yeah, I mean, I would say just first, in general, I was amazed at how many religious artifacts, how many saints, bodies, were buried in all the places we went. And again, I like completely missed that when I had gone the first time, and so that in itself was just profound to me. With that I could. Every church I went to which was only like a couple blocks away from each other, I had a saint that I actually recognize, like Mary, or or a piece like a piece of Jesus' cross over something, or you know. It was just a profound to me, how, how prevalent all of that was, no matter where we were in those cities.
Rachel Gilman:But yeah, there's definitely a few things that stand out to me. Number one was the, the holy stairs, and when we went to that we got extremely lucky because they had exposed them to the original steps, were exposed, so normally right there, covered, to protect them so that they can be present for, hopefully, hundreds and hundreds of years. But when we were there, I can't remember if they were just refurbishing or cleaning, I don't remember, to be honest, but but they told us they're like, this is so rare that you can go up these steps and these are the exact ones, like your knees are going to hit, the exact steps that Jesus walked up to a walked up when he was meeting Pontius Pilate, and so that moment was incredibly profound for me. Number one I didn't even know these existed. I didn't know these steps existed.
Rachel Gilman:But then, number two, like in the moment of kneeling, and I decided to pray for one intention that someone had given me on each step as my way of sacrificing for that person as I went up them. And yeah, it's just one of those moments where I think I really connected the dots on sacrifice and praying in the midst of sacrifice and pain for people and how that is connected. So it just really stands out to me to feel very lucky that I had that experience and even I mean I got to do it twice and went back for our free attention for what we did. But just that first moment of knowing these were the exact steps they were even covered I got to all the exact steps that Jesus walked on.
Joan Watson:That's incredible. So those are for people who haven't been to Rome. They're actually right near St. John Lateran, which is the Cathedral of Rome. People think of St. Peter's as being the cathedral, but St. John Lateran is actually the Cathedral of Rome. It's where the bishop's chair, the pope's chair, is, and so the Holy Father actually lived at St. John Lateran longer in church history, longer than he's lived at St. Peter's, and so he lived there and the Holy Stairs actually went up to his private chapel. So the Holy Stairs are those stairs, as Rachel said, that Jesus would have walked up and down as he went to Pilate to stand trial, and they were renovating them when you were there. That's incredible they renovated the entire chapel and so you were one of the few people that got to really be on the actual stair.
Joan Watson:So now, if you go up the stairs, you go up on the wood, which I think even going up on the wood is a beautiful meditation on the church history, because the wood is actually warped from all the knees of the pilgrims, and to think of how many pilgrims have gone before us and saints, like great saints, like St. Therese, did the Holy Stairs, and so I'm sure, maybe, possibly like St. Francis of Assisi. I don't know when they were completely open to the public, but just reflecting on the people who've gone before us in that wood, I was really worried they were going to put new wood. When they put the wood back on I was like, oh no, they're going to put new wood and that's going to kind of lose the charm and the comfort, because the trick to the Holy Stairs is that you want to get your knee in that divot to do it and to find your comfort spot. But I thought it was. That's such a beautiful approach to the Holy Stairs. What you did is praying for people on each stair and approaching it, because you can approach the Holy Stairs in lots of different ways. Some people do the rosary, some people do the Divine Mercy Chaplet, but I love praying for someone in particular on each stair. That's really powerful and the sacrifice that comes with pilgrimage are sometimes plentiful and sometimes there are things that we seek out right like the Holy Stairs are not easy to do.
Joan Watson:But I've seen people of all ages and all backgrounds do the Holy Stairs and it's really profound. I mean, I've been on the Holy Stairs with one of my pilgrims once and I think he was probably 85 or 86. And I had no idea that he was going to try to do it and he did it and it was remarkably profound to see someone like that sacrificing and entering into that prayer. So the Holy Stairs, such a powerful experience.
Joan Watson:I love how you also mentioned how you don't even know what you're going to find in these churches, and we talk on the podcast about the open heart and the open hands of a pilgrim, but I think you've brought up the importance of having open eyes and taking time to really be in a church and pray in a church and see what the church has that you might not even have known it was there. Can you think of a specific example of when you were surprised? I guess the Holy Stairs, you were surprised, but another time where you were surprised to find someone or something, yeah, yeah, gosh, I think I had several of those moments, but there's two that really stayed out to me.
Rachel Gilman:I one, gosh. I cannot remember what church is in Again, we went to so many so maybe you can help me with it but I just remember we walked into the church and our pilgrimage guide was just like oh yeah, and there's the table from the last supper up there.
Rachel Gilman:But it was like an afterthought and I was just blown away by the fact that was an afterthought, was like, oh yeah, that table is right there. And I just like I don't know, I was just shocked. I was like, seriously, that's there. And I just stood there like I didn't stare again Because I mean that's incredible. But that just happened multiple times. So that definitely stayed out to me.
Rachel Gilman:And then also we went into another church where there were essentially like a back small chapel where there were several artifacts, but it's specifically related to Jesus' crucifixion, so like a piece of the cross nail, I think one or multiple of the nails that were used in his crucifixion. And it was just like one of those moments too. It was like OK, go back there. And then back there, here is what is there. And I was like are you kidding me? Wait, what Are you kidding me? And so, because the people guiding us have seen him so many times, I think part of them is like, oh yeah, here it is, they've experienced it. But for someone who is saying this for the first time, like just the casual nature of like oh yeah, no biggie, here's some really profound artifacts from Jesus' own life, and in fact, like his death, and you get to look at them up close, and so those two moments stayed out to me the most.
Joan Watson:And Rachel's now given us a good itinerary for Rome, because you can do all of the things that she mentioned in a morning, because you can do the Holy Stairs, and then the table of the Last Supper is right across the street in the church of John Lateran, the cathedral of Rome, and then the relics of the Passion are down the street in St. Helen's Church, called Santa Croce in Gerusalemme, the Holy Cross of Jerusalem, and that's down the street. And so you've just given us a perfect morning in Rome where we can meditate on the Passion. And the Santa Croce is another church that so many people miss. It's, I mean, I think, it's one of the seven Pilgrim Churches of Rome that St. Philip Neri used to do a pilgrimage, and we'll have a whole podcast episode about the Pilgrim Churches of Rome. But the Santa Croce, I think, is often missed on many itineraries and it's so close to St John Lateran, it's right there, and it's often empty. Like you walk in and there's no one even near the relics and you're like this is the true cross of our Lord.
Joan Watson:Hello, it's incredible. And just that reminder, and I think this is the beauty of relics, the reminder that all these things really happened, like you just kneel at the thorn, you can see one of the thorns, the crown of thorns, and you just think, wow, this isn't something we just made up, this isn't just a story and I know that sounds ridiculous because we do this for a living, you and I, telling people about the story of Jesus Christ but we have to have those tangible reminders that this happened. This happened in time, right, in history, in space. God died for us and here is the thorn that pierced our Savior's forehead. Like it's incredible. It's incredible.
Rachel Gilman:Yeah, I, oh my gosh I completely agree with you. Yeah, it's funny to say I'm like, oh yeah again, like this really happened. But I mean seeing the tangible elements of his death, like seeing things that literally would have caused him pain and like held him to the cross.
Joan Watson:It just, it strikes you in a different way than just talking about it, and that's such the beauty of pilgrimage is to have these experiences outside of our normal everyday life, to then come back home and say like this is what I saw, this is what I experienced, and when we pray the Stations of the Cross, to be able to picture the things we've actually seen with our own eyes. You know, did you get to see the Holy Father when you were in Rome, or was he, you know, like out on vacation or something?
Rachel Gilman:And I did. We actually had a fantastic experience, again. Our our pilgrimage guide for this particular pilgrimage had done this exact like itinerary so many times, so he had like a master plan for his audience on Wednesday, and so we ended up getting literally front row seats to like a section, so that when he drove by he was right in front of us and I like I was kind of speechless when it happened because I just never imagined we'd end up that close. So that was such a beautiful moment for myself.
Joan Watson:I think every time I see the Holy Father, I'm I hope I never get jaded by it and just like, oh there he is. You know, and I think with World Youth Day I was kind of worried that I would be jaded because I'd seen him up close and I had seen him, you know, in different settings and. But I think one thing, especially for World Youth Day, that helped was seeing other people see him and seeing the joy of those kids that were seeing him for the first time and like the people running to see him, and it was just really powerful to lead that group in that way and to witness it through their eyes. That's what I love about leading pilgrimages is to like put yourself, you know, like your tour leader. I mean, how many times has he been to Rome? A million, right. But each time he goes he gets to see it through your eyes and he gets to see it, which I think is a really powerful moment. So we did see the Pope at World Youth Day.
Joan Watson:So let's talk a little bit about World Youth Day. And you know, Rachel, you had a very different experience for World Youth Day than a pilgrim. I love that you went to Rome as a pilgrim and you made like that specific decision to go for yourself, because it's a very different experience sometimes going when you're a leader, but for World Youth Day you were a leader and a fantastic leader. I will say publicly, really, really fantastic. Thank you, thank you, you know, were you still able to encounter God, even in a different type of pilgrimage, when you're actually leading a group?
Rachel Gilman:Yeah, yeah, I mean first of all, yes, absolutely. But I think it took deeper reflection and awareness to find those moments. I mean as a leader, first of all I had gone into it. I don't know, I guess I had big expectations for myself--n ot fully, I think, understanding my role as a group leader for our group but I was like, oh yeah, I'm going to have this profound experience, like God is going to come to me and it's like full of lightning, like this is what World Youth Day is all about. And I quickly learned, as a leader, like that wasn't going to happen for me and so I had to accept that, which was just very difficult for me. But I realized my role was different, right, and I was like going on pilgrimage, out there, supporting pilgrims. So, within the chaos of making decisions and supporting people, I didn't get any of those big moments, but I had just like looking back, I had such profound small moments like where God came to me and it was I, like I could have missed it, absolutely. And I just remember, specifically reflecting on the final day we were there and I was like I'm going to have a fun free day.
Rachel Gilman:So essentially, our entire group is scattered throughout Lisbon, which for me it's very exciting, because then I got a day to myself to explore and to have some moments of quiet and peace. And I was walking and I was super hungry. I was like on a mission, finding lunch, I'm going to go. And then I passed this church and I just had this like major tug on my heart to stop and but I was like no, no, no, I'm hungry. So, like I, the place that wanted to go was a pretty far walk and I literally walked past the church and I stopped because I felt this like deep need to like go into this church. So I was like I think I have to listen. So I walked in and nothing profound. I mean, first of all, it's beautiful. I think every church in Lisbon is beautiful but there was nothing happening.
Rachel Gilman:There are a few people praying and I just sat down and I had a moment where I just was like God, I have no idea what you want me to get from this experience. Like I was looking for connection with you and I don't know where the heck I was supposed to find that. Like I'm exhausted, I'm tired, I've cried several times, like I don't know what you wanted from me from this and I just but I had this moment where one of my biggest intentions for myself on the pilgrimage was I'm new to my role. So one of my things is I just prayed for confidence in myself, in this new position and my capabilities, and that God, like, really did call me to this and I'm capable of doing this ministry. And I just sat there and I am asking these questions and then I just have this moment where I was like, oh my gosh, like God answered my prayer, like I did this.
Rachel Gilman:I led 180 people for two full weeks through chaos and millions of people, survived. But also, like people had a fantastic experience. And I just had that profound moment where I was like, wow, like I guess what I'm looking for I wasn't going to get, but I think I got something so much better, like, and then leaving that church, I just thought, like I keep looking for God in such big ways and all I had to do was stop in a quiet, empty church and ask these questions and God spoke to me and I couldn't help but think like, wow, in this World Youth Day experience, like, God came to me that way. So in my regular life, like how many times have I walked by that quote unquote church, that call to like spend time with him so he can speak to me, and I've ignored it because I'm busy, I'm looking, I have things to do, and so it just really struck me quite powerfully, to be honest, even though it's such a simple moment. And then I started, because of experts, started noticing the way God was coming into my life in such tiny, like interrupting ways. So, again, like in that moment, I was on my way to lunch, I was like mission accomplished, I'm going to eat. And then like that tug, like that pull on my heart to stop, even though I didn't want to, and but I said yes to it and I mean, an amazing thing happened from that.
Rachel Gilman:And then, literally the next day, at the airport in Madrid again, mind you, I'd been on overnight bus from Lisbon to Madrid, didn't get much sleep, as you can imagine got to the airport at like 5:30am and we have this guide from Lisbon with us and she it's probably 20, like very young, very inexperienced, and we're in the airport.
Rachel Gilman:She has no idea what she's doing and so I'm teaching her because luckily I have an avatrabler. That's easy for me. But we just started talking because of that and we're waiting in line. The check-in counters are open, yet we got there so early and she started talking to me about her faith and the fact that she doesn't go to church anymore because of a bad experience she had of people not accepting her and or even just like being unkind and unwelcoming, and I in the moment was like no, like it's 5:30am, like two hours of sleep, Like this is the last thing I want to be doing. But then I just again had this moment where I was like I think God is calling me to like listen listen to her right now and to like talk with her about this, and so we talked for like 30 minutes about this and it was really beautiful.
Rachel Gilman:Like I ended up having moments of like challenging her to think about going back to Mass and letting her know like maybe she's the person that someone else is looking for and so, even if she's not finding what she needs, like maybe God's calling you to go back, so that someone like you never has that experience again. And she was like it just made her think and I just was like I never thought at like 5:30am I would be capable of this conversation and so, like I, then I just realized like, wow, I was like God, you really work through very normal day to day life circumstances, and especially when we don't want to be most, don't want them to happen, and so that's got me reflecting so much.
Rachel Gilman:Being back now, it's just like where are those tugs in my heart, where those moments where maybe I'm crazy busy but like someone needs me and like I can stop. Even if I'm tired, even if I've got a meeting I got to get to like I really believe in that power of God's power to do what he needs us to do, so anything really profound, but in a different way, so powerful, and it's such a good lesson for all of us to take into our lives that, you know, God often doesn't work the way we expect.
Joan Watson:Like you had, you had expectations of what he might do or how he might act, or what world you say would be like. I agree, like I had this expectation, that World Youth Day would be XYZ, and it was very different. And just to not be frustrated by that, but to see that the Lord's plan is actually even better and that he, he, did want to work in ways, even if they weren't what we were, they didn't look the way we wanted them to look. And then also that daily life. I love reminding people that, like, the Lord gives us little gifts in daily life, but if we don't have the open eyes to see them, we're going to miss them. And he's constantly showering us with gifts and opportunities, but we want them to look big and dramatic and they're often very little and we end up missing them. And so to have those open eyes, as you know, you, you, I mean it's, it's funny what you talked about, like making room for him in the quiet.
Joan Watson:We hear that, that story of Elijah right, that the God wasn't in the thunder and God wasn't in the wind and God wasn't in the hurricane and God was in the small whispering sound. It's one thing to hear that reading. It's another thing to experience it for yourself and to realize, oh, I do need to make room for him to work. If I'm so busy and I'm always talking, he can't work and he can't do what he wants to do. So thank you for sharing that.
Joan Watson:That's a profound, I think, a profound lesson to take away. And thank you for speaking to that woman, to that girl that needed you, because you don't know how your words are now gonna impact the rest of her life too. So that was beautiful. As we finish, you've given us a lot, I think, to take into our own thoughts and to take into our own quiet prayer with the Lord that we all need. But I wanna wrap up with High Low Disco, which is a game we kind of play at work where we talk about a high point of pilgrimage, a low point of pilgrimage and then disco like just a fun story. And so can we do that with your Italy trip? Maybe you can tell us kind of a high point of your Italy trip, a low point, and then just a fun story of something that happened.
Rachel Gilman:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I like to start with positive. I'm positive person, so I'll start there. I yeah. One thing that a high point that really stood out to me from my Italy pilgrimage is when we in Assisi. We visited the tomb of St. Clare of Assisi and I had chosen St. Clare as my confirmation saint way back when, in seventh grade, when I was 13. And I don't know, it was such a profound moment to say this is a saint I chose because I read her story and liked the role model she could be for myself. But then to be in the presence of this person, I chose and realize, oh, she's real, like she did all this and she lived here and here's more of her story. And being in that place was so profound and such a connecting point for me of like, again 13 years old, did I really really know why I was picking St. Clare? I don't know, something tugged in my heart about it, but being able to be there with her and pray and ask for her intercession, right there.
Joan Watson:I love that. I love that St. Clare is my confirmation saint too. Yeah, isn't that crazy. We didn't, yeah, and I agree, like I don't even know why I chose. I mean, she just kind of tugged at my heart and they say some saints pick us, you know. And I think, yeah, but that's such a beautiful, peaceful, peaceful place in her monastery and if you go to her basilica she's buried in the crypt and she's still behind the grill, so you kneel at the grill because she's still with her sisters and so the sisters can come and like, change the flowers at her tomb and everything, and she's still in that enclosure. And I just think that's so profound that even now her body remains. Obviously she's in heaven, but her body remains there in that cloister with her sisters. I think it's so beautiful. So, okay, a low point.
Rachel Gilman:That is beautiful. Low point. You know this one's actually hard, which is good. I'm happy that it's hard, but I think a low point for me is that we ended up going with about 90 people from our parish, which is a large group, to go on pilgrimage. Now it's been eclipsed by my real youth day experience, but as a parish group of like all ages, so we had I mean anywhere from teenagers to people in their 80s on this from our parish and so that just it was really difficult.
Rachel Gilman:I think that the large age span and just like the needs of different people was, I think, frustrating for myself being a younger person who's a little more bodily able, no little more in shape, like I was like ready for everything and so like to have these moments where I had to like stop and wait and like be respectful, which again, totally understand that, and like I should be doing that, but at the same time it was so it was hard for me and then like also it just sometimes created a negative influence on the group as a whole, because the I would say it's a generalization, but I would say in general the older age group of our group were often complaining about how much walking we were doing or the food or the hotel accommodations, and so that just was hard to like hear that all the time, and I'm also someone who just wants to see the good and everything even when it's tough, so to like have to listen to that a lot of times was kind of more and you know, group pilgrimages are so often a reflection of our life, in that we are a member of this church and the member of this world, where we have to put up with people that we wouldn't have chosen to put up with right and or like we're on a journey.
Joan Watson:we're on a big journey of life and there's lots of personalities and lots of needs, and how can we go forward joyfully and encourage others to? I think sometimes pilgrimage just brings that right to the forefront, right, this little microcosm of life too. And then a disco, something funny.
Rachel Gilman:A disco. Yeah, so when we were in Assisi I think you might have to fact check me on this, but I believe we got there like just after St. Clare's feast day and so there, because of that, there is a huge, like essentially huge celebration for from one end of the day for a week, but we didn't know any. We didn't know any of this. So we get there and again, like for us Assisi is like a breath of fresh air. If you've ever gone from Rome to Assisi, you'll understand that like from the giant city metropolitan area where it's go, go, go to, like the beauty of the countryside in Assisi is wonderful. So, like we're tired, right, we've done a lot.
Rachel Gilman:So I also went on this pilgrimage with my mom, so she came with me, and so we're sharing a room in a CC and we're like so excited because we finally have a day to sleep in.
Rachel Gilman:Like we're gonna travel to Florence, but we're not leaving until later in the morning, and so we're like, yes, finally.
Rachel Gilman:And so we fall asleep the night before we're about to leave, to like 6 am, like all of these bells start going off, and I mean like every single bell in the entire city is ringing and it's dissonant 'cause they're not all in the same note. So it's like at 6 am and then all of a sudden you're trumpets and like in the corner, like right outside of our hotel, there's like a giant van of like trumpeteers. And we find out later like part of their celebration, like we had no idea, and so I just sat up in bed like it's just, it's like an alarm, oh my gosh. And so I sat up in bed and literally just went. Are you kidding me? My mom was so confused I was like I don't know what's happening, but we just were, I just couldn't stop laughing. So, like, of course, on a pilgrimage, like the one day we sleep in, we get woken up by this giant, only in Europe, only in Assisi, or they're trumpets.
Rachel Gilman:And then we get, we get to, yeah what? So we get to Florence and then end up in Siena later that day and our travels, and so again to our hotel and again like we're going to go to bed and no joke. That morning we wake up and there's a parade going through the streets at like 6 am and there's like drummers and there's like people yelling, and we find out there just happens to be there.
Joan Watson:It was the Palio. I bet they're getting closer. Yes, the Siena Palio is always on the Assumption. Yeah, Hilarious.
Rachel Gilman:And so all the neighborhoods are parading through their neighborhood and like showing their pride and their flags and their colors. We had no idea. So two mornings in a row we get woken up by these loud noises like music, and I was just like you know what? I'm here for this.
Joan Watson:That actually has to be one of the best times to go to those cities because the Feast of St. Clare, August 11th, the Palio is a huge horse race and a huge deal in Siena, and so you chose like the best time, but you're also wanting to sleep in and you're like what the heck is happening. So that's hilarious, that's really fun. Well, thank you for sharing this, rachel, thanks for sharing this time, thank you for helping us remember that we have to have open eyes, whether that means literally looking around us to see what we might stumble upon, or whether it's seeing what the Lord wants to do in the unexpected. And it was great. It was great to talk to you again. So thanks, Rachel.
Rachel Gilman:Yeah, thanks for having me. This has been so fun.
Joan Watson:Thanks, listeners, for listening and, as always, we bring you stories, we bring you travel tips, we bring you all sorts of things as we navigate, both actual pilgrimages but also just the daily pilgrimage of life that we're all on. So thanks for listening, tell your friends about us and until next time, god bless.
