In Via
An Ancient Walk with Continued Appeal: The History and Power of the Camino with Kevin Banich
Venture with us down the storied paths of the Camino de Santiago as Kevin Banich, principal of Roncalli High School and social studies teacher at heart, takes us through the history of this ancient pilgrimage. Its history begins in Jerusalem with the Apostle James, but how do we end up in Spain? Tun in to find out.
We examine the milestones that marked its history: the discovery of St. James's tomb, the papal directives that codified the pilgrimage', and the majestic cathedral that awaits pilgrims at its conclusion. As with all pilgrimages, the story extends beyond a mere trek across Spain; it's a spiritual odyssey shared among strangers who become companions, a reflection on life distilled into moments of quiet amid a noisy modernity. Together, we explore how stepping out of our daily grind can lead to transformative self-discovery, the kind that only comes when we dare to follow ancient trails with open hearts and curious minds.
Venture with us down the storied paths of the Camino de Santiago as Kevin Banich, principal of Roncalli High School and social studies teacher at heart, takes us through the history of this ancient pilgrimage. Its history begins in Jerusalem with the Apostle James, but how do we end up in Spain? Tun in to find out.
We examine the milestones that marked its history: the discovery of St. James's tomb, the papal directives that codified the pilgrimage', and the majestic cathedral that awaits pilgrims at its conclusion. As with all pilgrimages, the story extends beyond a mere trek across Spain; it's a spiritual odyssey shared among strangers who become companions, a reflection on life distilled into moments of quiet amid a noisy modernity. Together, we explore how stepping out of our daily grind can lead to transformative self-discovery, the kind that only comes when we dare to follow ancient trails with open hearts and curious minds.
Welcome to In Via, the podcast where we're navigating the pilgrimage of life. We are all in via on the way and we are learning a lot as we go. I'm your host, Joan Watson. Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we'll see that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you right there in your car, on your run or in the middle of your workday.
Joan Watson:Welcome back to In Via, the podcast where we are navigating the pilgrimage of life. And right now on In Via, we are kind of walking through a mini-series of what the history of pilgrimage is in Christianity, and we've looked at the Jewish tradition of pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and then we've also looked at Christian pilgrimage to the Holy Land and Christian pilgrimage to Rome, and a lot of times when you look at Christian pilgrimage and the history of pilgrimage, there's three cities that are mentioned, and that's Rome, Jerusalem and Santiago in Spain. And so today we are going to be looking at the Way of St James, and some people have heard of it. It's called the Camino and we are talking to someone who's walked the Camino and who, I think, researched it, as a good historian should, before you walked it. We're talking to Kevin Banich, the principal of Roncalli High School in Indianapolis, Indiana. Hi, Kevin.
Kevin:Hi Joan, thanks for having me. I'm excited. Yeah, I'm a social studies teacher by trade, so when we went, we didn't just go for the fact of walking the pilgrimage, it was a little bit of a history experience as well.
Joan Watson:I love it. I love it. I hope I haven't already taken one of your sentences, but I always like to start with our guests introducing themselves to our listeners who might not know them, and I always start with the same question, and that's if you could only tell people three sentences about yourself, what would you say?
Kevin:First and foremost, I am proudly married to my wonderful wife, Audrey, and the proud father of my son, James, which obviously connects to our topic for the day. So that's one. Second one is I'm the principal of Roncalli High School in my professional career, and then, outside of my personal and professional, I'm just an energetic, extroverted, sports loving, history nerd that loves Catholic education.
Joan Watson:I love it well, thank you. I'm really excited for our conversation because, like you you you said like when you went on the Camino, you were going as a social studies teacher and I we we share a love in history. I had history as my undergrad and I think travel is such a beautiful way to give us a chance to geek out in history, to open our eyes, and so Camino had to be such a great opportunity to delve into that love for history for you.
Kevin:Yeah, I mean it connected so much of my personal and professional life together at the time, being a social studies teacher, working at a Catholic school, being with my wife. It was it combined, all of the great things. I mean it's one of those experiences that you can't quite put into words.
Joan Watson:And especially that history just.
Kevin:I caught. I caught some grief when you, when you walk the Camino, you meet a lot of pilgrims from around the world and so you learn about them for a week and who they are. And on one of the days it was like the 18 mile day of the way we did it and there were some Roman ruins that were kind of off the path. And so that evening when we got to town and we're celebrating with all the other pilgrims our day walk, everybody was like you know, kevin the social studies teacher like what did you think of the Roman ruins?
Kevin:And I was like I'm sad to say that I was so tired, I didn't walk off the path to go to those Roman ruins, I was like they were everywhere around us. So I caught a little bit of grief on our own pilgrimage about not going to see the Roman ruins.
Joan Watson:You admired them from afar.
Kevin:Yeah, relief on our own pilgrimage about not going to see.
Joan Watson:You admired them from afar. Yeah, I just kept walking. Yeah, yeah, um, and I mean pilgrimage is such a important part of history, of history of so many different peoples, and so, as kind of thinking of like the social studies side of you, I guess, do you have a conjecture of why pilgrimage plays a role in throughout history and major religions? And I mean, sometimes we think of we're the only ones that go on pilgrimage, but people have been going on pilgrimage for thousands of years.
Kevin:Yeah, no, I mean. Yeah, it's critical in world history. Pilgrimages exist across faiths, continents, and I think it's just what an incredible opportunity to put yourself in a different frame of mind. I think, especially today, you know the world that we live in. The only way to really put yourself in a position of peace and sacrifice and prayer and removing yourself is to truly go, put yourself in an uncomfortable situation that disconnects you from all the things you know, and I think, as much as we're connected with all the technology. That was still true. Like in the 15th century. People were like we have so much technology, our world is so busy. It's not like they, it was the busiest the world had ever been at that time, and so people have always been looking for a way to find some discomfort, find some ways to push themselves outside their limits, and I think that's the only way you can do it is to go kind of extreme, depending on what that level of extreme looks like for you.
Joan Watson:Yeah, I love that and yeah, I mean, I think different pilgrimages call that out in different ways. You know, the Camino is definitely the physical side of. You know, you're actually physically walking.
Joan Watson:Nowadays, a lot of times when we maybe go on pilgrimage to Rome, you're not walking to Rome, probably You're still doing a lot of walking, but there's a different sacrifice where maybe there's a spiritual sacrifice or a mental sacrifice. But when we look at the Camino, I think it's the best example of the way, of that way of pilgrimage, and Camino, of course, simply means the way and it could be used to describe any pilgrimage. But most of us, when we talk about the Camino, are talking about this particular way of St James in Spain, one of the most ancient Christian pilgrimage sites, and so I think our conversation about this Camino has to begin with a very big question of why Spain? And that might be a huge broad question, but I think our conversation about the Camino has to start with that why Spain? Kevin?
Kevin:Yeah, what a start. So I think, before to Spain, I think we start with St James. Like who was St James Sounds good, Even like St James the Greater, which means there's a lesser which is always like ooh, which St James.
Joan Watson:I always get them confused.
Kevin:Yeah, so, as my five-year-old son would say, St James the Greater is better, because that's what I always am like. You're named after St James the Greater, not the lesser, Cause that's what I always I'm like. You're named after St James the greater, not the lesser. But yeah, St James the greater, a fisherman, is one of kind of the inner circle right Of of the apostles. So you've got the 12, but then you kind of got an inner ring of the three, and so St James the greater, probably named, maybe because of his physical attributes, and maybe named after a little bit of a temper which I kind of like. He was a sons of thunder, which I like that. So he's on the inner side of Christ's apostles, and so after Christ dies, he of course sends them out to the ends of the world and says you know, it's now time to spread the good news. And so St James the Greater then went to the end of the known world, which was the Iberian Peninsula, which the end of the world. Then you can end the Camino in Finisterre, which is translates to the end of the world. And so why Spain? You know, there's, as we talk more in this, there's somewhere where scripture ends and the legend begins. And so scripture tells us apostle of Jesus. Jesus then said go out, you know, and spread the good news to the world.
Kevin:After his death and resurrection, St James, our history tells us, then went to the Iberian Peninsula and then eventually returned. He was the first of the apostles after Judas to die and the first one martyred and the only one that is mentioned in scripture. So the rest of the apostles we find out from history. James the greater. We know that King Herod at that time, in roughly 44, has him beheaded. We learned that in Acts of the Apostle. And then in that moment the legend kicks over and, as I like to joke, then we get like 10 centuries of legends and stories and traditions where the history gets messy and there's debate and discussion as to OK, go back to your question, how does Spain then come back into the picture?
Joan Watson:So yeah, Well, before we jump into some of those legends because I think it's fun to talk about some of those I think it's important for us to remember sometimes we read Acts of the Apostles as if it all happened within like three weeks. You know, like we're reading Acts and we're like, oh well, then you know Pentecost, and then they went out, and then they had the council of Jerusalem, and then James was killed, and then you know, and just to realize like this all was stretched out in a long amount of time, and so it can be hard for us to really like think of how did James get to Spain, but then he's the Bishop of Jerusalem? But to realize Acts of the Apostles it happens over time. Right, it takes Paul a long time to travel over all these places, and so that's kind of helpful, I think, for our listeners to remember that we have James's martyrdom in Acts, but that didn't necessarily happen. You know, a week after Pentecost.
Kevin:Right, there's no. Yeah, no, ryanair could just get you from Jerusalem to Madrid, like we do today, right? This all was over months years.
Joan Watson:Yes, yeah, yes, yes. So what are some of the stories of Spain and kind of some of the stories that surround the Camino, like when? I mean, maybe this is another question but like when did Christians start making this pilgrimage and why?
Kevin:Yeah, so you kind of get this multi-century gap that exists in the history of St James when you're talking specifically about the Camino. So he, he dies, and the legend is that he, that his own disciples that were going to kind of be his inner you know group following him, they took him back to the Iberian Peninsula, northwestern what is now Spain, because that's where he was spreading the good news. And so certainly a part of the legend is, you know, that there were angels that directed them as to where that body should be placed, how he got there a stone boat is involved and then he finally comes to his burial spot and then we kind of like it, kind of for a simplistic standpoint, kind of shuts down for several centuries, until you jump to the ninth century, in which a shepherd has a dream, a vision, is led by angels to this open field that's covered in stars which is where we get our name, santiago de Compostela, the field of stars and discovers this tomb, recognizes it being important it must be important, lets the bishop know, lets the king of the Iberian Peninsula, that empire at that time in the ninth century, know what's going on. And then they establish and say this is the spot of St James. You know the between the dreams, the visions, the angels, the legends of St James being brought back. This clearly must have been an important person. This fits within who St James was, and so, therefore, this is a holy spot.
Kevin:And so in the ninth century, we start to as that comes about, over time, over the next few centuries, the word starts to spread in the known world, especially in the Iberian Peninsula, that this is where St James, who was a critical, you know, the patriarch of the patron saint, excuse me, of Spain, people then start to flock to. Naturally, there's no formal thing that exists of, it's just word of mouth. Like St James tomb has been discovered, we should travel there, and they're traveling the same roads that existed from before the Roman Empire. I mean it kind of to dork out about history. All of those roads, those ways are just been built on years and centuries and centuries of medieval time, and so that builds. And so, finally, the church kind of is like well, we kind of need like a plan for how to like. What do we do? How do we tell people? People are wanting to know. Now they're hearing it from further stretches, now it's making its way to Rome and people inside the city of Rome, in Jerusalem are like we want to travel here.
Kevin:So in the 12th century the Pope kind of puts together you can call it like the first guidebook of like here's how to walk the Camino de Santiago. It starts to put those writings together to say we need to tell people like how do you then say it's legit that I went on pilgrimage to? Because unfortunately throughout history there's all kinds of people who are trying to fraud the system and claim an indulgence and those things exist inside of the history. So the Pope kind of like look, we need, this is how you do it and this is how you make it official that you've actually then walked the Camino de Santiago. So you kind of get that in the 12th century by the Pope's writing.
Kevin:By the 13th century they then built this cathedral I think 1211, the cathedrals built so we've gone from a location in a field to a shrine, to a small chapel, to a church, to a massive cathedral, kind of over time. And I think that physical structure shows then too how the crowds were, were heading there and the the church finally had to say like we needed a, we gotta make this official, like we can't just people running around saying like I walked the Camino de Santiago and it's like how far did you walk? Four miles, I don't know if that counts, and so that's kind of how we kind of it's word of mouth. And then finally, the they keep building bigger and bigger churches and chapels and then build a massive cathedral and the Pope's like this is legit, we gotta we gotta write the rule book for how you do this.
Joan Watson:Yeah, I love that because at the same time, like when um St James's tomb was discovered and you know, you think ninth, 10th, 11th, 12th centuries we have this, this tradition, this spirituality of pilgrimage growing and it might be part of your penance, right, if you, you know, murdered somebody, your penance might be make a pilgrimage and then you have to show that you did it right.
Joan Watson:You have to show like, hey, father, I went on pilgrimage and so it's a fascinating, I think, blend of the spirituality, this penance. I mean, that's where we get the tradition of souvenirs is that people would go on pilgrimage and then they bring something back. Right, you'd bring something back from Rome to say, look, I went to Rome, I prayed for you at the tomb of the apostles, and so this idea that, like I love the fact that, like Santiago de Compostela, becomes kind of very logistic, like how are we going to show that this person did this and isn't lying about it? And Compostela has that kind of best. There's, no, there's nothing like it to get your stamps and to walk the way and to go and get you know your certificate. And it comes out of this desire to to show that you've done it and I I love that.
Kevin:And that's what's so neat about. Well, I mean, there's so many aspects right to walking it, but knowing that you know we've mentioned that there's so many different pilgrimages that exist, but to do one that is so like there are rules that still exist, you must walk 100 kilometers to say that you did it. You can't just like wake up one day, walk into town and say I'm here I've walked this.
Joan Watson:Yeah.
Kevin:That's so neat that we get. We get this rulebook Right. If you're going to do it on a horseback, if you're going to do it on bike, it's 200 kilometers. If you're going to walk it, it's 100 kilometers. Every day you must get X number of stamps two stamps to prove where you started and where you ended and, of course, for me.
Kevin:I was like, I'm going to get a stamp everywhere I go and it's ancient and you're walking. There's so many parts of it that are so powerful that sometimes you feel like you're walking in the ninth century. And there are other times you're like walking past a car dealership. You feel like you know, we walked it in 2018. And you feel like it's 2018. And there are other times where you're like, I mean, I feel like St James could be walking the same path as I am, because there's just random animals walking in a field and it's rainy and there's not a car to be seen and there's no cell phone service.
Kevin:And that's cool too with the Camino that I was not prepared for. Walking it was like you you do feel like you're in some ways in the old world and some ways you're in our current world, which is pretty powerful because it combines all of the things that we're talking about.
Joan Watson:So yeah, and in many other pilgrimages, you kind of have to make that happen, right, you have to kind of force it. I mean, in Rome you can walk down the Via Sacra, through the middle of the forum, where Peter would have walked and Cleopatra would have walked in, but you need some imagination, right, the stones are the same, the buildings are rubble, and so you need to kind of put on. And in Rome you can go underground and you can walk these ancient, but in the Camino it's, it's ancient and new and it's, I mean, it's like our Catholic faith, right, it's, it's old and new, it's, it's beautiful. You're walking with the saints that have walked it for hundreds of years and that are cheering you on. Now, you know, there are people in heaven saying, kevin, I did this, you can do it, just like life, you know. And so it's so vivid in the Camino.
Kevin:When we, when you, the way we walked it. I mean that's an important aspect and this is why the church had to get involved. There is no, there's rules to say that you've done it, but there's no correct way officially outside of once again, you got to do a hundred kilometers, you've got to get the stamps, you've got to then turn that in Um when you get to Santiago de Compostela. You've got to do those things. But there's so many different ways that exist. I know I get asked a lot of time when people are like well, where, where did you, where did you start? Where you? People can walk from France, people have walked from Fatima, they've walked from Lourdes. I mean, technically the Camino starts at your front door when you leave your house. So technically for me it was Indianapolis, indiana. Now there's no, there's no stamp. I didn't get my past book stamped in Indianapolis local Chick-fil-A. They wouldn't. They were like what are?
Kevin:you doing. But there, that's also what's neat is, because there's all these different paths leading to what is to believe to be the tomb of St James, and so there's no right way or fast way or how you know where do I start, what town, what city, how do I even get to wherever it is that you're going to start from. But when you do the way we walked it, which was the French way, we walked the end, the last portion of the French way, and when you get to the east side of Santiago, you're in a modern day city. You are in my previous to that. You're in these small towns and villages that have their, their economies are built off of the pilgrims.
Kevin:Well, you get to this major city, to get to the old city on the west side, I was walking around still telling everybody Buen Camino, buen Camino. My wife was like these people are going to work, like they're not, they're going to their office building. Like this is the equivalent of CVS you're walking into, like this is, you know, you're kind of, keep walking, go to the other side of town. So that is. That's definitely that. New and old is is right there together.
Joan Watson:Yeah, yeah, I love how you said there's no right way. We actually talked to somebody a few episodes ago about her Camino and she talked about how it's your Camino. You know, like you have to walk your Camino and you can't compare your Camino to other people's Caminos and, like you said, it starts when you walk out your door. I heard that St Augustine, florida, actually got permission to be a starting place for the Camino. Um, like you'd have to get on an airplane though, right, like um, that was a little confusing, um, but that idea that that's reflective of our own pilgrimage in life too right. Like you, don't judge your pilgrimage in life by other people's pilgrimages in life. We all have our starting points and we all have our Caminos, and I think that's important.
Kevin:I mean for us, for me personally when we walked the Camino just the side fun, kind of funny story my wife and I were kind of just we were a young married couple didn't have a kid at the time trying to figure out like what, what would be unique that we could do right now in our phrase of life, and so we selected this. And then I had a coworker who was like I was Googling it. And the coworker was like, hey, what are you Googling? And I was like the Camino, like kind of like don't, why are you looking over my shoulder? And he was like, can I go? Like are you going to do this? And I was like I mean, it's a free country. You like you can do it whenever you want. And he was like, but can I go with you guys? And I was like I mean, our romantic European backpacking trip is now going to pick up a random coworker. And then he was like, well, that would be weird to kind of be there by myself. So I thought he'd ask his wife. And no, he asked another coworker.
Kevin:And so my Camino he was my wife and I on this romantic European you know spiritual thing was now turned into me and my two coworkers who were formerly my wife and I's teachers. And then my parents found out about it and they were like, hey, if those two guys are going, can we go? And then my in-laws found out about it and were like can we go? So I you know, our Camino was unique. There's no way that those eight people would have ever gotten together my wife, my two co-workers, my two parents and my wife's two parents. The eight of us walking the Camino de Santiago. That was a that was unique and there was power in that. I think everybody you talk to that walks the Camino there's always unique twists and to their own story in their own way. And to their own story in their own way.
Joan Watson:Yeah, which is life right Some? Of these, like the friends were, like we never would have picked those out.
Kevin:God clearly picked those out and here we go, and so I love, here we go.
Joan Watson:I love how reflective it is of life. Yeah, why do you think we've seen a resurgence in the popularity of the Camino lately? Because I know people who walked it, like in the early 2000s they were walking it alone I mean especially Americans. I guess there wasn't really. And now, like they say, like it's crowded, Like you have to get to the next albergo to get your you know your bed for the night, why do you think we see this resurgence now?
Kevin:Yeah, I think you know a little bit of history.
Kevin:So in the late 20th century, the European Union, the UN kind of step in and say, look, this is a historical and cultural site and there's pros and cons to that. Right Like to rise this up to allow people to know like there's a lot of beauty in that. But, as you mentioned, then it starts to become like a little bit more of the Appalachian trail kind of thing, where people are doing it for recreational purposes, which we met pilgrims along the way. They ask you as a part of your documents. They ask you are you walking it for spiritual reasons or are you walking it for health reasons? For us of a spiritual reasons, but you certainly run into that and so I think there's beauty in that because you're still pilgrims along their way. As to whatever that way is, you kind of know. But then I do think a key kind of turning point when you look at the census data for the number of people walking it was the Martin Sheen movie, the Way.
Kevin:When that came out. I mean, I know for me personally, that was when I watched that movie. I was like this is awesome and I can't believe I can do it. Um, and there's been a. There's a more recent documentary, um, called I'll Push you. It's about two best friends, one who's in a wheelchair, um, and he, he said I want you to, I want to do the Camino, and his best friend, who was not in the wheelchair, said I'll push you. And they, they did 500 miles of it and it's deeply moving and to watch it.
Kevin:And so I think we've seen some secular culture rightly so kind of rise, this pilgrimage up from a religious standpoint, this pilgrimage up from a religious standpoint.
Kevin:I think, too, to be an optimist in the world.
Kevin:I think the more secular society has gotten, the more technology driven, the faster we're all looking for a wait, for a break, and so, whether it's a week, two weeks, a month, of whatever your Camino is, I think people are looking for that.
Kevin:They're looking for peace and quiet and to get away, to feel, to be uncomfortable, to be challenged to do something that I can't get if I walk down the Monon Trail. I mean, I would love to, but I can't put myself in that same presence of mine. I mean, even as we're wrapping up this season of Lent here and about to celebrate Easter, as much as we try to offer sacrifice and fast, you can't fully put yourself in that position of sacrifice and prayer like you can on the Camino, and it's not that anything's better than the other. I think that's partly why we see these pilgrimages, see a resurgence is because people they want time for peace and prayer and quiet and reflection and to just be in the moment. You know to stop having your head down on a cell phone and look up at a field or not look at the Roman ruins that I should have gone and seen.
Joan Watson:I think that's what we're.
Kevin:I think that's why I mean I don't know if that's probably you can't get that in a textbook or that's just my own personal kind of opinion of like our souls, our hearts are desiring that. And a pilgrimage to medieval Northwestern Spain offers you an opportunity to step way back in time and do some soul searching and some praying and figure out what's going on in your heart.
Joan Watson:Yeah, I think there's this desire to that. There's has to be something more than this, you know, and there's a desire to connect and even those people who may be doing it for health reasons or the, you know, the people who don't believe in God but are walking this, there's this recognition that there's something more right. There's this search and we have to, like what you said at the very beginning, we have to sometimes get out of ourselves to do that and get out of our comfort zones to search and it seems like, especially after COVID, just this desire to do something tangible in a way, and peaceful. And yeah, so I'm excited. I'm excited that people are searching for that.
Kevin:Yeah, and I think everybody goes into their Camino for their reason and I think you leave with a different outcome than you ever expect, because I think in our minds we think we know why we're walking the Camino, but then you learn what your heart and soul is really desiring as you're doing it, because you're putting your, you're vulnerable. I mean, yeah, props to my mom, who had never. She's not a hiker, a camper, and she's in rain gear walking up hillsides with cows. I mean it was, that was powerful, that was super powerful.
Kevin:To see my dad's an army guy, so it was an opportunity for him to just be a fitness guy. I mean, I do, I think it, we look for that and it's so funny. We live in a world where we keep saying like more, more, more, more, more is better, better, better, better. But the Camino just kind of teaches you like being present. And my most powerful experience of the whole thing was literally walking on the side of a highway. It wasn't pretty, it was raining, cars were going by and I remember being like I've never been at more peace in my life than randomly being on the side of a road in Spain. And there were other powerful experiences the cathedral, the Buta Famero swinging, but that was the most peaceful I've ever been. Sometimes I even think like man, maybe I should just start walking down I-465 to see if I could get back that feeling of like peace that?
Kevin:I don't think so either, but you can't get that anywhere. You can't get it anywhere else.
Joan Watson:Yeah, I'm excited, I'm going to be leading a pilgrimage to Spain this summer and we're not going to the Camino, we're not walking the Camino, but we're going to Zaragoza, which is a city in Spain where Our Lady appeared to St James because he was getting frustrated that he wasn't having, you know, evangelistic success. And she appeared to him and encouraged him and just to kind of go back to the roots of our faith and to remember that, you know, the apostles got frustrated, or you know, and just this idea of like reuniting ourselves back to the very beginnings, and I love that, santiago, you wouldn't think Spain had that connection to the early church. I think people know, okay, we're talking about Rome, we're talking about Jerusalem, but it's fascinating that, no, we're also talking about Spain and that early effort of St James. And now we kind of honor him by continuing to pray at his tombs and searching for him.
Kevin:So I think it's so neat that everybody, I mean the church, has declared that the three main pilgrimage sites are Jerusalem. We're like, all right, makes sense. Rome makes sense. And then you're like in Santiago de Compostela and people are like, wait, what? I've not been to the other two pilgrimage sites. I would love to go to Rome, I would love to go to Jerusalem. We might be joining you at some point in the future, joan.
Joan Watson:Okay, sounds good.
Kevin:Yeah, it's so neat that that is just the place you would least expect it is offering some of the greatest hope and prayer in the entire world. That's awesome.
Joan Watson:Yeah, I love it. Go St James.
Kevin:Go St.
Joan Watson:James, do you have any recommended resources? I mean, the two movies you mentioned I think are a great start, but the last couple episodes I've just ended by, you know, saying like if we want more, do you have any recommendations for reading or anything that you found helpful?
Kevin:Yeah, I, there is so much now because of even to the popularity of all of the different routes that you can take. There's documentaries. I mean I hate to be so simple, but like you can just Google the Camino now and it's endless with with blogs and vlogs and videos about you. You just look at the map and say, look, I'm thinking I want to start in Suria, or I'm thinking I want to start, you know, and I want to do the Portuguese way for us. I mean, those two, two movies and documentaries were it. I'll push you.
Kevin:They also wrote a book about it which is very powerful. Um, the travel guide for us. There was a travel guide that was Saria to Santiago, that literally explained elevation change and what you were going to see and some different tips along the way, because every little town and village has its own really cool cafe or some story about the pilgrimage that you would have no idea, because you become numb to so much history. You're like I oh, that's just like a 12th century building that I just, you know, ate breakfast in um, and so you kind of get to the history of that. That was one that I would recommend, but I mean for me, the way it got me interested in the I'll push you kind of was like this must be so powerful.
Kevin:And then just being on the Internet and just like I said, there's so much out there, it was harder. It was easy to say that we were going to do the Camino, it was harder to figure out where, when, how, what town, how are we getting there? Soria, spain how do you get there? There's no airport right Like you can't. So a lot of those I think are helpful. In addition to just learning about the history of St James, I think it's looking for those travel guides to just help you dissect the nearly endless options that exist out there in different ways and journeys and paths.
Joan Watson:Good Well, thank you, kevin. Thanks for chatting about the Camino, and both the history of it, but then also your personal experience. I really appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for your good work.
Kevin:We need more pilgrimages out there for people to experience, so really appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, thanks, thanks for your good work. We need more pilgrimages out there for people to experience, so thanks, joan.
Joan Watson:Yeah, thank you, and someday I'm going to take you to Rome and the Holy Land. So you heard it.
Kevin:Sign us up, sign us up.
Joan Watson:Well, thanks, listeners, thanks for tuning in as we continue kind of our walk through the history of major pilgrimage sites and share this with somebody who may be considering pilgrimage and who may want to know more. But tune in again as we continue to talk about our daily pilgrimages of life. God bless.