In Via
Planning a trip? Or just on the pilgrimage of daily living? We are the podcast at the intersection of faith and travel, assisting you on the journey to encounter Christ. Hear stories, discover travel tips, and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we’ll show you that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome, Lourdes, Mexico City, or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you - right there in your car, on your run, or in the middle of your workday.
In Via
The Tactile, Sacramental Experience of Pilgrimage with Father Thomas Haan
Why would a pastor include pilgrimage in his new pastoral plan? Join us as Father Thomas Haan shares with us what role he hopes pilgrimage will play in his suburban parish. We discuss the importance of encounter in religious formation, whether through Catechesis of the Good Shepherd, Eucharistic Adoration, or pilgrimage.
Listen as we share the transformative impact of pilgrimages, not only in awakening spiritual hunger but also experiencing the transcendentals of goodness, truth, and beauty, and broadening our horizons. There can be many reasons not to take a pilgrimage, whether it's our schedules, finances, or fear. But don't you want to show the Lord you sought him with everything you had?
Welcome to In Via the podcast where we're navigating the pilgrimage of life. We are all in via on the way and we are learning a lot as we go. I'm your host, Joan Watson. Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we'll see that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you right there in your car, on your run or in the middle of your work day. Welcome back everybody to In Via the podcast, where we are navigating the pilgrimage of life. We're learning a lot together as we go. I am excited today to be joined by a friend, Father Haan, who I've known for many years, and I'm just excited today to chat about pilgrimage with you, father. How are you?
Father Haan:I'm doing great, Joan. Good, good to talk with you.
Joan:It's been a while it has it has. Father and I kind of grew up together and then we became adults and now we're doing ministry in our own separate ways. It's fun for our paths to cross right now. Father, I always start people off with this kind of difficult question because I think you could talk a whole half an hour about who you are and how you got to be who you are today. I'm going to limit that to just say if you could only tell people three sentences about yourself, what would you say.
Father Haan:I'd begin by saying that I'm a farm boy at heart, being raised on a family farm with cattle and raising corn and soybeans. That's one thing about me. I'm a priest of Jesus Christ in the diocese of Lafayette, Indiana, serving currently as pastor at St Louis de Montfort Catholic Church and school in Fishers, Indiana. When I am not living my task as a pastor or going back to the farm, I love to read and I love to play some sports.
Joan:I love it. I love it. Father and I actually, I mean, I didn't meet you in high school, but we went to high school together and Father was the quarterback of our football team. I'm sure you're sick of people bringing that up, aren't you? That's your story. Quarterback of the football team turned priest.
Father Haan:I learned early in my seminary days how everything is a part of God's divine providence. At first I resented it. I felt like I left my past behind, that I was putting on the Lord Jesus, but then I've saw others who use their witness and testimony so effectively in relating. People are so fascinated by the world of athletics and even, in my case, college athletics for a year. It was a doorway into conversation and real profound conversation. I do not resent it and it's okay if you mention it.
Joan:It's interesting, I think travel is the same way. We're realizing and that's one thing we want to do through this podcast is people love to talk about travel and travel can be this doorway to talk about the greater things in life. We can talk about sports, we can talk about travel as doorways to the greater things in life and the spiritual life and things that you might not be able to talk about just when you first meet someone, but it can be that entry into conversation.
Father Haan:The Lord can use all of it, that's right.
Joan:Even as we talk about this, I think about, in a sense, we could interview you about the pilgrimage of life, in that your vocation has been a pilgrimage. You go from farm boy to priest in a relatively wealthy area. There are probably a ton of farmers at your parish down there in Fishers. This idea of this pilgrimage and this journey and where God brings us, and all along the way, we're made into someone and he uses it all, we'll just have to do that on a future episode.
Father Haan:All right, I'll hold you to it Today.
Joan:I wanted to talk about pilgrimage because we were having a conversation recently about your parish and being pastor, which is a huge responsibility. The idea of pilgrimage came up and the idea of pilgrimage really being a part of your parish. I want to talk to you about that, but I want to start by asking you what's your experience with pilgrimage and the concept of pilgrimage? Have you been on pilgrimage? What has that been like?
Father Haan:Yeah, I. I think my first pilgrimage, if I can say this, was an accidental pilgrimage. It was not intentional. So when we were growing up, because of my dad's love for United States history, usually, as my mother would say, it was not a vacation without, until we saw a cannon, you know right, so I hear you has to go to a battlefield.
Father Haan:So I Distinctly remember must have been a middle school where we went out to do the Washington DC trip and we were heading towards Gettysburg on highway 15 along the Catoctin Mountains and we see this massive gold Mary statue hovering over the trees and we said we've got to check this out and it ends up being the National Shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes on the campus of Mount St Mary's, the University and Seminary. So you know what a nice little consolation. We walked through the whole kind of grotto area, prayed there, and then we get back. We're so eager to tell our pastor about it, like did you know this is out there?
Father Haan:It's like, yeah, I went to seminary there and I was, oh well and then you know, flip forward a few chapters, and that's where I went to seminary.
Joan:So I love it full circle.
Father Haan:Yeah, so that I learned the value of going to sacred places in an inadvertent way, but I'd say the the most. The first formal pilgrimage I ever took was when, in high school, our pastor took my brother and I and three cousins to Rome. He saw that, you know, these teenage boys were beginning to take their faith quite seriously and this could plant some serious seeds in their souls for doing God's will and staying in the heart of the church. And that trip, yeah, blew my mind and changed my life. So from then on out I was seeking ways to encounter God through sacred places.
Joan:Love it. You know, speaking about the accidental pilgrimage, it's something we talk about both with verso and then on this podcast is the idea of. You know, sometimes we go into a trip as a tourist, we might come out as a pilgrim because we are, we encounter the Lord and just this idea of always having our eyes open you never know where the Lord wants to encounter and like to be ready to be surprised and I can just, you know, like Mary's peeking out over these trees just beckoning you to come, and you guys were open to that and that's an important part of pilgrimage, I think just to be open to changes of plans and detours. We can say that about life and we can say that about Pilgrimage. So I love that your first pilgrimage was an accidental one, um, but that trip, um, you know I was going to follow up was if there was a particular pilgrimage that had an impact On your understanding of yourself, or your understanding of the church, and I would say probably that Rome pilgrimage with Father Tim.
Father Haan:I think, I think that was the beginnings, for sure, of to Be so close to so many saints and, uh, we were blessed. Uh, that's, it's a whole long story, but we were able to get within 30 yards of Pope John Paul II and that I mean, he was already becoming my hero and that's that cemented it. Um, and then a few years later, uh, and when I was in college, my sophomore year at Purdue University, I was able to go see Father Tim when he was working on his doctoral dissertation in Poland. And got to walk the footsteps of of John Paul II, my hero, and I think that was when the critical question of vocation was at the forefront. I was teeter, tottering and, uh, wrestling with the question, and To walk on the footsteps of a man who sought greatness in God and through God made me think that's, that's what I want for my life Not to live his life but to do something great for God.
Joan:Yeah, I love that you were able to meet him or not, you know, meet him, but encounter him while he was still alive. And then the pilgrimage in his footsteps. And then I mean now, have you been to Rome since he died? Have you been able to go to his tomb as Saint John Paul II?
Father Haan:I have. I have visited his tomb and, uh, you know there's all sorts of bucket lists and to offer Mass at that tomb would be one of them someday, yeah.
Joan:Yeah, it's just, I love our church and I love our history and I love that sanctity- we can see it like we're so blessed to have lived in this age of saints, that that you know People have met Mother Teresa that are still living right, people have met John Paul II, and then to be able to celebrate their feast days and to go on pilgrimage and to walk in their footsteps, that it's just so alive, it's so radical, like it's just radical.
Father Haan:I I still love listening to his voice and hearing, even if it's in Polish or or Italian, but especially in English, or even chanting the Pater Noster. It just does good for my heart.
Joan:Yeah, it's so true, like I think the saints are called to be our friends and we can have lots of friends as saints, but those that we encountered in In the life, I think is it's even more clear to have them as as our friends and our companions in this pilgrimage, you know you bet um. So you have have striven Stroke. Striven, striven, is that a word?
Father Haan:it is now We'll have to look at the dictionary later.
Joan:That's. I mean we might as well be live podcasting here Like we don't, we don't uh make we don't you know, we get it.
Joan:So here we go, um, but you are striving to make pilgrimage part of your parish plan, if I can use all the p words, um, you got it. And I think that's really intriguing when you, when you said this was kind of your plan for For your parish as a pastor, throwing in more p words, um I. I thought I need to talk to him more about why he chose this, because I think as a pastor, you have a lot of strategic ideas. And how do we you know evangelize and how do we cataclysm and how do I make sure the bills are paid right? There's so many things laying on your desk right waiting for your attention. What, why did you choose to make pilgrimage a part of of your parish?
Father Haan:So Our diocesan pastoral plan had every parish go through a three-year parish vision plan to create some goals to strive towards making your parish more what God wants it to be. We took advantage of that thought. You know, we're casting a vision for where we could go and honestly, it kind of began with our reflection on the catechesis happening in religious education and I think that we were nothing to no detriment to all the incredible volunteers throughout the Church that have helped teach young people in religious ed. We felt like not a single young person would point back to that 40, 45 minutes, 12 times a year, 20 times a year, as transformative. The book basis, a workbook basis, was not bearing fruit and we said if young people are leaving the church in droves, if it's broke, let's throw it away and try something new. So we said, what is it if it's not this kind of textbook version which the intellectual life has a place? But we kind of drawing from probably you know, Pope Benedict's famous line about it's an encounter with a person, an event, right. So this word of encounter, maybe that's more Luigi Giussani, but to facilitate encounters for our young people. So that was on the Eucharistic level. We wanted experiences of our Lord, getting them in contact with him and getting out of the way. We began a really aggressive implementation of Catechesis of the Good Shepherd at our parish, thinking that facilitated encounters and really I don't know a sacramental experience, the tactile, the five senses, right. So and that's where it flowed into pilgrimage, saying like we want encounters with the Lord to supplement the Catechesis, and it's not just for young people, we want Eucharistic encounters for our adults and we want these pilgrimages, which are extremely sacramental, you know, engaging the five senses, usually encountering both natural beauty and sacred beauty, and that opens their eyes to the goodness and truth that God offers. So that's kind of the avenue by which we said this is going to be crucial.
Father Haan:Now I've been a priest now 10 years and four of them were spent at Guerin Catholic High School in Noblesville, Indiana, and along with a couple of the Nashville Dominicans that work there, we kind of established vocations trips, but they were designed as pilgrimages.
Father Haan:So once a year the young ladies would go south to Nashville but along the way we would see some sacred sites and of course the Mother house itself is a beautiful sacred site and the gentleman at the time would go up to Chicago and see four or five incredibly beautiful churches and then stay at Mundelein when our seminarians were there so they could discern their vocation a little bit and learn what that's like. So I saw the impact that had and my students, you know that, went on those trips. So talk about it, not the theology class, even though hopefully they got some out of that too. So that told me, all that effort because it takes tremendous effort to pull off a trip the logistics, the planning, the paying for it, all that but it was so worth it, it stuck with them. So I said if that's a high school student it's better be the case at my parish.
Joan:Yeah, I love it. I think there's something so beautiful about that sacramental worldview, whether it's in Catechesis of the Good Shepherd or on pilgrimage. This site, like you, mentioned the five senses and the tactile that the Lord speaks to us and all of it. And how do we break out of this daily life to open ourselves to experience him in that way, as adults, I mean, I think I think actually Catechesis of the Good Shepherd can have an amazing impact on adults. I've done the training and as a teacher, it has an impact on you and you become a little child again.
Joan:But the majority of adults are not going to learn through Catechesis of the Good Shepherd, through the Montessori Method. So how can we you know what's another experience they can have, that that tactile, that, that that total sense, sacramental worldview, how is the Lord touching me? And if we are pulled out of our daily life on pilgrimage, then we can come back into our daily life renewed and seeing him in that that daily life. I think it's really powerful. You talked about the Catechesis and that very few people are going to point to their religious education as that transformative moment, because it's, it's workbook learning, and while both of us, I think, are on this exact same page as: intellectual life is important, I think it's that mind and heart right, and so we can read all the books in the world. But if we're never sitting in front of the Eucharist, if our heart is not, does not know the Lord. It needs to be mind and heart, and pilgrimage is that opportunity to allow our hearts to be touched, you know.
Father Haan:Yeah, I think a lot of thinkers more intelligent than I are speaking about the three primary transcendentals and those access points to God truth, goodness and beauty and those who are already curious in seeking, they'll find the truth and be fed by it, but there's plenty of people that don't have a hunger for that, and so they'll be awakened through either goodness or real beauty. So we'll try to take any of those avenues to reach as many as possible. Yeah.
Joan:And one beautiful thing about many pilgrimages I'm thinking Rome, the Holy Land, is. You are, you're cutting into that transcendental of truth as well, right, like you're encountering the Church- for Rome, for example, you're encountering this church history, you're encountering this liturgical life. You're definitely encountering beauty, but there's this idea that you're experiencing the church outside, different from your little parish, right, and so there's this thing that's awoken in you to the sanctity of the saints, the truth of Jesus Christ, in these places like Rome, for example. And so I think there's so much that can be said about the transcendentals on pilgrimage as well.
Father Haan:All three, absolutely. And I'll give a more immediate example. And just to refer back to that parish vision plan, not only do we have a goal for our parish, starting this coming year, that we'd offer at least one national and one international pilgrimage per year for parishioners, but we also made it kind of a goal in our school. So we have a pre-K through eighth grade school, 565 kids, and so for our sixth and seventh grade retreat this year we and it just happened this past Monday that we went on a pilgrimage to beauty down in downtown Indianapolis so we hopped on a bus, went to St John's in downtown, went to Holy Rosary and then we went to Sacred Heart.
Father Haan:So there's three beautiful churches. In each one you're catechizing the whole time, You're pointing to the realities of the Mass through the lens of their architecture, but also the figure of St John, who the patron saint of the church is, and Holy Rosary Same thing. So now some of those young people need to be awakened to what real beauty is and actually find interest in it. But if stepping into a gorgeous neogothic structure with world-class stained glass, that'll wake you up, I don't know what will?
Joan:I love that. And it reminds us that pilgrimage can be very close to home. We don't have to go across the ocean. It's our mindset in going to these places and our openness to encounter Christ, even if it's a half an hour from our house. That's right. What do you hope your parishioners will gain from the practice of pilgrimage? What's your hope for them? I think on a broad sense.
Father Haan:I think there is a dearth of appreciation for the culture that the Church provides. So, through Western civilization, what the church has contributed, the best of literature, of sacred music, of sacred art, and that's why trips throughout Europe and even through the United States. You see, it's that vision, the Christian vision, that actually bears tremendous fruit, whereas maybe they juxtapose that with our current modern culture. That is probably bearing a lot of bad fruit in the arts. So that's one thing Just. Our Catholic faith is not just maybe Mass on Sunday and coffee and donuts that they get to see. It affects not only all of our life but all of culture.
Father Haan:Ideally, I mean, each major location will have an intended effect. I hope, I mean I know that I never read Scriptures the same after going to the Holy Land, and I want my parishioners to have a deep love for the Sacred Scriptures but also let it come alive for them and feel closer to our Lord that way. I have a hope that our parish can go to France and see some sites of our patron saint, S t Louis de Montfort, and if, by God's providence, you find yourself at a parish that's named after a saint, I think that's a way he wants you to gain a friend in heaven, and it's been a goal of mine to foster some great devotion to that saint, which is, I think, unique patron saint for a parish. There's not too many parishes named after him. It's true, it's true, yeah.
Joan:And it's interesting because when we thought we were talking about that earlier, I know a lot about him but I don't know that much about the places in France that he lived and preached. You know, he had kind of a unique ministry as well where he preached around France and my favorite fact about Louis de Montfort is the places where he preached devotion to our Lady were not affected adversely by the French Revolution, that our Lady protected the places that welcomed him in protected those places from the horrors of the French Revolution. And I mean, if that's not a good commercial for devotion to our Lady, I don't know what is. But I thought, wow, I don't know, if I had to design an itinerary for St Louis de Montfort in France, I would have to do my research, and that's exciting.
Father Haan:I think you will, yeah, so yeah, he was on the move a lot in his short priesthood and so that makes it elusive, but at the very least, praying at his tomb would have an incredible impact.
Joan:Yeah, and learning more about France or the horrors of the French Revolution and what it did to the church and the cultural impact. I mean, I think what pilgrimage can do is it can give us this understanding of history that we've either forgotten since we were in school or we never learned in school, and just to broaden our horizon to what were these saints facing and who were contemporaries with each other and what was the Church facing in this time. And there's just so much. Maybe it's a history major in me, but I think pilgrimage just opens us up to that historicity of our faith that it's not just about 2023 Indiana right, it's this huge family of 2000 years of history.
Father Haan:I think when you talk about the French Revolution but so many of eras of church history, there's going to be resonances in the present and that's a huge part about not only the virtue of prudence but that gift of wisdom. I will perceive the current situation with greater clarity and then find greater clarity as to what I ought to do and greater conviction in doing it, because it's been done before.
Joan:Yes, yeah, yeah. There's so much to pilgrimage to take us out of ourselves, to give us that prudence and that clear vision because we're really seeing with the mind of Christ, which is our goal, always right. What do you think prevents people from taking a pilgrimage? Do you think, I guess, in another way, like, do you think everybody in your parish will be gung-ho and excited and everybody signing up, or do you think you'll have to do some convincing?
Father Haan:I think I'll speak to my own situation. As you said, I'm kind of a Northern suburb of Indianapolis. There's a lot of young families and I think people are driven professionally and I think their calendars are chuck full. Now there's also this kind of implicit pressure that when you do get a break, you're going to go on vacation together. It's a matter of priority.
Father Haan:In saying that, I can do it now and even having the idea and I know it's another conversation to have is how old should a child be to get something out of a pilgrimage? But I think plenty of people are filled with fear of the unknown, and that's not uncommon for people that just something new is difficult. And then, of course, the financial question too, of saying I don't know if I can afford this. How do I plan this out? So I think those are a few things that I'm going to have to overcome. It's not reserved for the wealthy, it's not reserved for the retired, it's not reserved for those who were over 50 that have the maturity, it's for everybody.
Joan:Yeah, I was. I'm going to be eternally grateful to my parents that they took me out of school for two weeks when I was a freshman in high school and took me to France and Italy, and I know that's an extreme privilege that many people don't have, and I was very privileged to be able to do that. But they took the advice of a good Nashville Dominican sister who said don't let school get in the way of your education. And it's really. She actually told me that when I was going to study abroad in Rome, and I think that's important for people who study abroad to understand too. Right, your education comes in lots of ways, but I encourage parents to allow the Holy Spirit to work on your kids and you never know.
Joan:My sister went on pilgrimage at an early age too and she probably looked bored out of her mind most of the time. It made a huge impact on her faith life and seeing John Paul II, and so I always encourage parents like you know your kids best, but be allowed like allow the Holy Spirit to work too. You never know, this might be what they need to ignite that. And thinking about the financial side, that's what I love about your plan to not just do international pilgrimages, but how can we do pilgrimages locally? You know that maybe someone we don't want to reserve this for the wealthy, and so there are plenty of opportunities nearby that people can go. I mean, I can think of so many opportunities within driving distance of Indianapolis that there are great places to go visit, and I hope that you take people back to Emmitsburg sometime to kind of bring everything full circle.
Father Haan:I think I should.
Joan:I guess this. I have two final questions, and one of them may be a little redundant, because we've talked a lot about the advantages and the power of pilgrimage, but why would you encourage your parishioners, in the end, to kind of make this leap of faith and take this trip?
Father Haan:When I say this, I mean in a different sense, that maybe it on face value. I want to tell my parishioners you've been given one life. Now that doesn't mean, like you know, live to the full, live adventure. I mean it's part of it. But the fact that the Lord has given you this gift of life now, in United States, in 2023, where we actually do have access to these sacred places that our ancestors may not have had, that at chance and and so because it's possible, it makes me think you should. And At the end of my life, whether it's to pilgrimage my daily life, my prayer, I want to tell the Lord I sought you, I Looked for you and I I looked for your friends and it was close to your friends and they became my friends and I took trips with them. So, so I think, in the one life you've been given, I think pilgrimage is a part of showing the Lord that you sought him with everything you are.
Joan:I love that. I love it To. To wrap up, I just wanted to ask you a fun question as we end, and that is if you could go in pilgrimage anywhere in the world, where would you go?
Father Haan:you know, I've never done a pilgrimage in France and that's high on my list and and I spent less than 24 hours in Paris on a layover and saw Notre Dame before the fire and maybe Saint Vincent of Paul, so that was a little taste of it. But no, just knowing there's so many incredible saints that came from that country and knowing that they're all there - Marian apparition in Lourdes, the Little Flower, John Vianney, the list goes on and on. So I think that's I've got a long, long list of hopeful pilgrimages, but that's towards the top.
Joan:Yeah, france is is one of those elusive pilgrimage sites where I think you could go for three weeks and still not see everything. Like, when I start making a list of everything I want to go on pilgrimage to France and it's like this is going to be a month, so I don't know whether that's possible to go for a month, but it's a huge country and it's just such a massively Catholic country that there's so much, so much.
Father Haan:Yep I. Maybe I should start applying for the sabbatical now. I don't know.
Joan:And I'll come visit you. Okay, but well, thank you for joining us, father. This conversation went quickly, but thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on on pilgrimage. Is there any Thing you'd like to add or any closing thoughts that you know maybe we didn't touch on?
Father Haan:no, I've been blessed to listen to some of the episodes on this podcast. I think you do a great job. I'm proud of you. It's fun to see friends you grew up with living their vocation and serving the church and helping other people to the Lord, so it's fun for me to watch, and You're doing a great job of reminding everybody who listens that this is not your home. Heaven is, and that's why we go on pilgrimage.
Joan:So yeah, well, thank you father, keep it up. Thanks and you keep it up. Know that we will be praying for you in your ministry. That is so vital to our church today, and so we will be praying for you in this, in this vocation, and we will all go on pilgrimage with you someday, hopefully deal.
Joan:All of us, all the listeners. My goodness, I'll need back up. Yeah, so well. Thank you listeners, thanks for listening to our conversation and thanks for joining us. Share this episode with someone that you think needs to hear about the importance and the power of Pilgrimage, and make sure you subscribe and follow so that you never miss an episode. God bless.
