The Holy Land Today: A Call for Authentic Encounter & Shared Humanity

Has the Holy Land been on your heart and mind in the past months? Join us for an in-depth discussion with our special guest, Jenna Streich, who called Jerusalem home while she studied abroad in 2018. Jenna's unique perspective and experiences shed light on the beauty that is the Holy Land, not just as a historical or tourist site, but as a vibrant community brimming with culture and people whose lives and communities today are as interesting and worthy of exploration as the Holy Land's ancient history.

We unpack some of the challenges and divisions facing the Holy Land currently, and Jenna encourages us to seek nuance and go further in our understanding of the conflict there today.  We also humanize the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, reminding listeners of the innocent lives it affects. Jenna’s love of exploration, knowledge, and the immersive experience she had in the heart of the church will give you a deeper understanding of the Holy Land and its influence on those who dwell in it.

Finally, we invite you on a thought-provoking discussion about pilgrimages and the shared humanity it uncovers. We challenge societal structures that enable separation and dehumanization, urging everyone to recognize and address these issues as they are present in our own lives. Through Jenna's eyes, we explore the transformative power of pilgrimage, as pilgrims do not just pass through a place, but also allow that space to pass through them. Be prepared to broaden your perspective, and join us in prayer for peace in Jerusalem.

Transcript

Joan Watson: 0:01

Welcome to In Via the podcast where we're navigating the pilgrimage of life. We are all in via on the way and we are learning a lot as we go. I'm your host, Joan Watson. Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn more about our Catholic faith. Along the way, we'll see that if God seeks to meet us in Jerusalem, Rome or Santiago, he also wants to encounter you right there in your car, on your run or in the middle of your workday. Well, welcome back everybody.

Joan Watson: 0:34

Welcome to In Via the podcast, where we are navigating the daily pilgrimage of life, and we are going to continue, kind of our special edition podcast episodes, by continuing to talk about the Holy Land, that important topic, as we kind of live through this conflict, this ongoing conflict, and today I'm very excited to have my co-worker, Jenna, with us today. Hi, Jenna. Hello, Jenna Streich works with me at Verso and she has a unique experience, a unique glimpse into the Holy Land, and so we're going to just chat today a little bit more about the Holy Land. So, Jenna, I always ask people the dreaded question if you could say three sentences about yourself, if you could tell the audience about yourself in three sentences, what would you say about yourself, that's so hard.

Jenna Streich: 1:23

I know it's really hard, okay.

Joan Watson: 1:25

So I would say I didn't warn Jenna about this question. She was thinking on the spot.

Jenna Streich: 1:33

Okay, so this is, and there's probably a lot more than three sentences that you could say about myself but things that come to mind are I am very stubborn and I think that can be both my best and my worst quality.

Joan Watson: 1:47

Yeah, so that's, I think, one of them.

Jenna Streich: 1:50

Another thing I would say is I love to explore and I think that it's like a good thing, like I think that manifests itself both in the fact that I work for a pilgrimage company and we travel the world and all of that which I love to travel. But I also think, just like intellectually, I'm a huge nerd. I love to learn new things, I love to learn a lot of different things, so I think that exploration is there as well.

Jenna Streich: 2:16

And then I would say that I don't just want to say things that like make it sound like I'm patting myself on the back, but I would say that I thrive in situations of accompaniment, and so I have a history in education and as a teacher, and also now working in pilgrimage, and also just like in my personal relationships with my family and my friends, I think the idea of accompaniment and walking with others is like something that I get really excited about, because I think that that's like a space where the Holy Spirit can be really powerfully at work and yeah, I guess I'll stop there.

Joan Watson: 2:53

So I stopped, just like blabbering, no, that's a great sentence and I love how you're and we need to talk about this on another episode about how your journey has gone from education in the classroom to education in this very different sphere. But you have such a teacher's heart and I can see it in the way you interact with pilgrims and you interact with co-workers that you have this educator heart and I love that. The idea of accompaniment because of the theme of in via, about how we're all on this pilgrimage and we all need accompaniment on the pilgrimage and that's a great sentence to describe you and I will say absolutely. I think I agree with all three of those things.

Jenna Streich: 3:30

Thank you.

Joan Watson: 3:31

So when we look especially at accompaniment and encounter, I think it plays really well into what we're talking about today, when we're looking at the Holy Land and tell us a little bit about your experience in the Holy Land, because you help, you know plan trips and pilgrimages now, but your experience with the Holy Land started a little differently than the typical pilgrim experience.

Jenna Streich: 3:56

Yeah, so my first like exposure to being in the Holy Land was I had the amazing opportunity to study abroad in Jerusalem as a junior in college. So I spent four months living in Jerusalem and taking classes at both Bethlehem University in Bethlehem as well as at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, and then doing an immense amount of learning outside the classroom as well. So I got to spend an incredibly extended amount of time there, which I like consider to be a huge blessing and I think really is something that not a lot of people get to experience and I, yeah, and that's I'm really excited and grateful that I have the opportunity to kind of share that. And then that was kind of the inspiration. One of the many things that kind of led me to working in pilgrimage is because the time I spent living there was so impactful for me, and I think it's a way. What I do now is a way to kind of share that and kind of bring others to that space as well.

Joan Watson: 4:59

Had you ever traveled abroad? But you never traveled abroad before choosing to study in kind, of the heart of the church, in a sense. Had you ever studied abroad before? No, I had never.

Jenna Streich: 5:09

I had gone to Canada the summer beforehand, so I had never left the country until the age of 20, I guess I was when I went to Canada and then within a year I'd been to like five or six different countries or something ridiculous. But yeah, that was my first transatlantic flight. That was the first time I had seen anything older, like the stuff on the Freedom Trail in Boston, like it was.

Joan Watson: 5:32

It was like full on immersion, like yeah, you didn't go, like you know, to Ireland or Italy. No, you're going right into the deep end, yeah, yeah. Why did you choose to go to the Holy Land of all places? Because you could have studied abroad any number of places with Notre Dame. Why did you choose Jerusalem?

Jenna Streich: 5:47

Yeah, so I actually I'd always wanted to study abroad. Like when I was like in elementary school and I found out that I was like, wait, you could go into school in a different country when you're in college. Like that's cool, I'm going to do that. And then I had a lot of older cousins who studied abroad in Spain, and so I was going to go to Spain, I was going to go and study abroad in Madrid and I was going to do all of this stuff and I like would see all their pictures and all of that and I was like, yeah, that'd be so cool. And then when I got to college, I was like, great, I'm going to go to Spain, I'm going to take these Spanish classes.

Jenna Streich: 6:18

But when you applied for study abroad programs, you applied for three programs and you got to rank them and so it's like, okay, well, Spain's number one, what do I do for the other ones? And I was like, huh, they have a program in Jerusalem. Like that is really unique and different and cool. And then I pitched the idea to my mother and she said no way, are you going to Jerusalem for a semester.

Jenna Streich: 6:38

And to which I responded there's no way Notre Dame would send me someplace that they thought I would be in danger because they don't want to have to deal with that lawsuit.

Jenna Streich: 6:47

But yeah, so there's stubborn Jenna coming out. Exactly, yeah, so ended up ranking Jerusalem is like my second choice, sort of as this, like yeah, that'd be kind of cool, and then ended up not getting into my first choice study abroad program. But by that point I was like kind of at peace with that because I was like all right, well, like Spain wasn't meant to be and I can go there at some other point. But I guess I'm going to the Holy Land.

Jenna Streich: 7:14

And I think it also made a lot of sense. So I part of the whole explore thing that I talked about is it took me forever to decide what I was going to study when I was in school but ultimately ended up being a double major in theology and general science but then had a minor in international peace studies, and so if you're looking for a place where theology and peace or lack thereof kind of come together.

Jenna Streich: 7:39

There really is no better place than Jerusalem, and so it that's kind of how it all worked out and I got on a plane to Tel Aviv and, yeah, it's amazing.

Joan Watson: 7:51

You know, I think we can all think of and we're not talking to John Paul, we kind of said the same thing we can all think of the amazing parts of living there and getting to, you know, go to the Holy Sepulchre anytime you want to, and being very close to Bethlehem and being able to go there, and but what was maybe the most surprising thing, that was a perk of living there that maybe you hadn't foreseen.

Jenna Streich: 8:13

Yeah, that's a really good question and I think and John Paul kind of talked about this too like it's one thing to hear about the Holy Land and to hear about how it's this place where all of these people and all of these religions all come together. But I think there are so many layers to what makes the Holy Land the Holy Land. When you're talking about the people who live there, when you're talking about the theology, the history, the architecture, the archeology, the culture, the food, the music. It's all just so layered on top of each other and mixed and combined. And living in the midst of that was at sometimes really hard, but so many other times was so beautiful.

Jenna Streich: 8:55

And I think coming from like just having grown up in the suburbs of Chicago and having a not that my childhood was bland, but I think going to a place where there was so much richness everywhere I went was really surprising and really beautiful. And I think I always tell people the Holy Land is a place that if you come home you should you will come home with more questions than answers and you'll come home with wanting to know more and just when you think you have it figured out, it continues to surprise you and continues to teach you something new, and I think I didn't necessarily expect that to be my biggest takeaway for being there or one of the biggest takeaways from being there.

Joan Watson: 9:44

I think it's really beautiful that you lived there, because so often when we go on pilgrimage we can see it as like going to a museum or a place frozen in time, like I'm gonna go on this pilgrimage and I'm going to see these things, but to live there, you are really accompanying and walking and encountering. Can you kind of speak about, maybe, that experience of encountering and living, not just going to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and praying there, but living with the Holy Land?

Jenna Streich: 10:10

Yeah, definitely, and I think that was my favorite part of the whole thing was the people that I got to meet while

Jenna Streich: 10:18

I was there. The people that call the Holy Land home are the most generous, hospitable, welcoming, just joyful people to get to spend and live life with. Like these were classmates and shopkeepers and people who worked at Notre Dame's campus there and just people who brought so much life to this place. And I tell this to our pilgrims too, when talking about the Holy Land, that the Holy Land, if you approach it as an archeology tour of sites from the Bible, you're gonna see some cool stuff, right like you're gonna go and see some old, like Capernaum and see the synagogue and you're gonna go to the Holy Sepulchre and you're gonna see the layers of the walls of the old city, but you're gonna miss out on so much of the way God is at work in the Holy Land today.

Jenna Streich: 11:04

Because I think living with the people who call the Holy Land home was where I was continuously struck, over and over again, by God's presence in that place, and I think it really to me hit home this idea of like there are like yes, this is the place where so many things that we read about in the Bible happen. It's where Jesus lived, died and rose, but it's also a place where Jesus continues to be alive and the people who witness to the gospel there today and who are just really good and generous people and who live their lives, and I think just the opportunity to exist in that space with them and to listen to them and to learn from them and to hear their stories, and all of that, I think, just contributed to making those places of pilgrimage that much more powerful.

Joan Watson: 11:53

It has to be hard, given the situation now for you who knew people personally and encountered people personally, that people weren't just caricatures, they were people. It must be hard now even to look at social media to see kind of the warped idea of people or what's going on, because you encountered these people as people.

Jenna Streich: 12:16

Yeah, exactly, and I think, when talking about the conflict in the Holy Land, I think it's and as it is with many things, very easy to fall into black and white thinking.

Jenna Streich: 12:25

Like it's either this or this or it's either.

Jenna Streich: 12:28

You're either this or you are

Jenna Streich: 12:30

that and I think it's... having lived there has shown me that that's really not the case and that, yeah, when I see and read about things like they're not just strangers, they're my friends and they're my classmates or they're relatives of people that I knew, and I think that adds a human element, and I think, especially when thinking about the conflict and when thinking about the Holy Land in particular, like that human element gets lost so much.

Jenna Streich: 12:58

Like people are just like, oh, they're the terrorist, or oh, they're like the evil oppressors, or oh, they're so and so, and like you can't. If you talk in those generalization terms, you lose the fact that these people, the vast majority of them, are just trying to do their best to live their lives and are just trying to exist in a world where their rights are recognized and where they're able to live with dignity and to move freely and to have access to the basic necessities in order to live their lives and raise their families. And I think it's when you get to know that human element of the Holy Land especially but I think I would say any pilgrimage place right, like if you, the people there add so much to that richness and, I think, help to kind of remind us that at the end of the day, like in a war, like what's happening now, it's the innocent people that are suffering the most.

Joan Watson: 13:48

Absolutely. It can be so easy to become desensitized when we see these images of both sides, the death and the destruction, just to become desensitized and be like, oh, those people are hurting, or those people are doing the hurting, or those people, and to think, oh my gosh, this is somebody's son and daughter and mother and father, and these are people. These are people.

Jenna Streich: 14:10

Yes.

Joan Watson: 14:11

And it's. I don't know what the answer is to you know, but I love that your time being there has given you this added view of a conflict that most of us are distant from to a certain extent. Can you speak about the organization you were telling me about earlier that you all met with relatively early on in your semester?

Jenna Streich: 14:30

Yeah.

Joan Watson: 14:31

Maybe like the first couple days.

Jenna Streich: 14:32

Yeah, so something. And I give Notre Dame's program in Jerusalem all the credit in the world because they, like we, were in classes on both sides of the wall. We were in Bethlehem and in Jerusalem. We met with organizations from all different faith backgrounds, from all different sort of cultural perspectives, and their whole goal was to give us as much exposure to as many different people and hear their stories as possible because, like, ultimately, at the end of the day, like I did not grow up in the Holy Land.

Jenna Streich: 15:00

I'm not Israeli, I'm not Palestinian, and all I have is my perspective from having lived there and the stories that I've been gifted with. But one of these such organizations that we met with that I'm very, very early on in the semester was this group called Parent Circle Family Forum, and they their whole thing of what they do is they bring together parents who have lost children as a result of violence between Palestinians and Israelis. So you're bringing together the parents of a Israeli person who died in a suicide bomb or a knife stabbing with the parents of a Palestinian person who was killed by the IDF and a raid in a village in the West Bank, and you're putting these people in the same room and you're getting them to have conversations and getting them to recognize their shared humanity and see that like this, the killing, the violence, that's wrong, no matter who is doing it, no matter what is happening, that hurts and that tears away at people.

Jenna Streich: 16:04

And I think it gives from the stories we heard from the parents that we met with and the people that we talked to. I think it's a way that people can have support amongst a really, really tragic scenario. But it's a way to take some tragedy and also kind of work for something positive. Not that that justifies people dying, I don't want to say that but I think it's a way to kind of grow from that in a positive and constructive way. And I would just say I think I wish there was more of that in the Holy Land in particular, because the way that society is set up there is it's meant to keep people separate.

Jenna Streich: 16:43

There are, and not that people shouldn't like live and work amongst people who share similar culture, values, whatnot. But for example, in Jerusalem there's the Palestinian bus and there's the Israeli bus and the Israelis ride the Israeli bus and the Palestinians ride the Palestinian bus. And it's not that if Israeli were to walk onto the Palestinian bus, no one would shove them off, but like why would they take that bus? Because that bus is designed to go to the Palestinian parts of town and where that happens and the Israeli bus does the Israeli things.

Jenna Streich: 17:17

That's one example, or I mean the mere fact, of the existence of the separation wall. Right, it keeps Palestinians and Israelis separate because if people are separate from each other, then you can dehumanize them. Then they're not your neighbors, they're not your people that you're seeing at the grocery store, they're not your friends, they're not your kids' classmates at school, they're the other. And society doesn't help. The structure of society is not such that it encourages that encounter, it discourages it and it actively works against it so that it can be weaponized as a means of power and control.

Joan Watson: 17:51

Yeah, and like we've seen throughout history, that that's not the answer to peace. No, like we've seen that in cities you don't ghettoize people, you don't separate people, you don't look at people as other, like we are one humanity and whenever we've separated people, that hasn't led to peace, that's led to violence, because at least so that dehumanization of our brothers and sisters. Right, yeah, it's hard to even know. And I mean, I think it's also a call to us to say where am I doing that in my life? Because we can like point to people over there and say they shouldn't do that, but where do I do that? Right, and I do that in my own life, and that's exactly control what's happening over there, except with prayer. What am I doing here to not do that in my own life?

Jenna Streich: 18:36

Yeah, exactly, and I think that also is a really powerful thing to keep in mind when thinking about pilgrimage to the Holy Land too, and it's something that I have a lot of respect for Verso, because I think they're and I lived there for four months, and so maybe this is me sitting on my high horse but I firmly believe that there is a right and a wrong way to do pilgrimage to the Holy Land, because it is very possible to go to the Holy Land and to go and see all the nice things and to pray at the places where Jesus was and all of that.

Jenna Streich: 19:10

But there are some Holy Land groups that don't go to Bethlehem because it's in the West Bank and because that's just not a place that they go and there what you're missing out on the place of the birthplace of Christ and the town that is the heart and soul of the church in the Holy Land today, or like there are places where, or are the, or you could. You hypothetically could go on pilgrimage to the Holy Land and have a Jewish guide and never meet the local Christian population and you're. If that's the case, then you're not exposed to the hardship that they face and to the suffering that they endure just by existing there. Or you could go on pilgrimage to the Holy Land and never know that the conflict was happening.

Jenna Streich: 19:52

Yeah and you could never talk about it, you could never hear about it, you could never. And there are ways to. It sounds crazy, right, giving you there's a war going on there now, but there's a way to do that and I think that's terrible.

Joan Watson: 20:04

Yeah, I think you can look beyond the wall. I mean, like you don't.

Jenna Streich: 20:07

If no one points the wall out to you, you could probably go to the Holy Land and never notice the wall on the road between, like Ben- Gurion and Jerusalem, like you drive right by the wall, you're right in like, but it's like kind of hidden, it looks kind of nice and it's like, okay, whatever, it's like some fence. And then you realize what that is and you're like, oh, okay.

Joan Watson: 20:27

Yeah.

Jenna Streich: 20:28

Yeah.

Joan Watson: 20:28

Yeah, I like the phrase you used Earlier this week about like being a responsible pilgrim. Yeah, and so.

Jenna Streich: 20:35

I think I firmly believe that part of going on pilgrimage to the Holy Land is and this language gets used amongst by people in the Holy Land but people talk about the ancient stones and the living stones. So the ancient stones are the things of the Bible and the really Sacred and incredible and beautiful sites that you can go and encounter. All of these places that are the heart and soul of Christianity and the heart and soul of the life of Jesus, and it's amazing. And so if you go to the holding land on pilgrimage and you don't do those things, like what are you doing? Like those are such an important part of that. But then there's also the living stones, and the living stones are the people who live in the Holy Land today, and especially the Christian community and the Holy Land, and they're shrinking and they're small and they live under persecution and they live under occupation and suffering and hardship, and if you're not encountering these people who are keeping our faith alive in the place where our faith is born, you're missing out.

Jenna Streich: 21:33

Yeah and you're missing out on their stories.

Jenna Streich: 21:36

And I really really do think that the Christians in the Holy Land have so much to teach the rest of us about what it means to be hopeful, what it means to believe in resurrection amidst so much suffering, and what it means to support each other, what it means to truly be the face of Jesus in the world today.

Jenna Streich: 21:55

Like those are valuable lessons from these people who are inhabiting this place where Jesus lived, and if you go and you ignore them and you ignore their stories, then you're missing out on that. And I think a pilgrimage to the Holy Land or to anywhere is about and this is part of what I love about Verso, and the way Verso talks about pilgrimage. It's so much more than just like going to some churches and praying right like that's great, but if you're not encountering the fullness of what a place has to offer, you're missing so many ways that God can speak to you, because in those people's stories and also in their joy and in their food and in their friendships and in all of the beautiful things about their lives, like God speaks to us through that too, and I think that is really powerful.

Joan Watson: 22:38

Yeah and well like. This isn't necessarily a commercial for Verso, but in a sense, I would encourage everybody to try to make it to the Holy Land when we can go back like we're our hearts are broken. We want to be there, we want to be taking people there and, when it's time, if you haven't considered going on a pilgrimage, please do, because that's one way we can support these people. Yes, they're like you said, the population's shrinking. This is their livelihood, is is what they're doing over there.

Jenna Streich: 23:07

Yeah, it was really funny the day. So when, on October 7th when this all broke out, I think it was the day after that I was talking to my mom and she's like oh, Jenna, I'm so glad you're not in Jerusalem right now, like I'm so glad you aren't there, and my response was I wish I was, like, I wish. Like when things like this happen, like everyone turns away, everyone runs away and sure, like the world, has eyes Holy Land from afar. But it's all of us just like reading the news and right, like absorbing videos on social media. But like, who's there? Like who's walking the streets of Jerusalem? Who is going to the shops in Bethlehem Who?

Jenna Streich: 23:44

is keeping the stores open? Who is going to the churches to pray with these people? Who is hearing their stories, hearing their joys, their sufferings, the ways that this is impacting their daily lives? It's because, even for people who don't live in Gaza, this war is impacting them, whether it's they're working in the tourism industry, or whether it's because of heightened security measures, or whether it's because of restricted movement or restricted access to supplies or goods or fuel, even outside of Gaza. This impacts their lives and I... i t's having... a s you said, this is it's because of having lived there, like these are my friends, and when people suffer, that's where you want to be. Yeah.

Joan Watson: 24:25

I'm gonna put you on the spot here and I don't know whether there's even an answer to this question. But what would you like? What would you recommend? Is there anything you would recommend that we do? Sitting here in, you know, the United States or wherever you're listening to this podcast, you're probably not in the Holy Land. Is there something you would recommend us to do that when we feel so helpless about what's happening?

Jenna Streich: 24:48

Learn, and learn intentionally. I would seek out the stories of people who call the Holy Land home, and there are plenty of books and plenty of things you could read or people you could talk to. But if you're going to do that, I would start there. And great example is a book, Blood Brothers, by Archbishop Elliott Shakur. It's a he grew up just outside of Nazareth and it's his family story starting pre- 1948, living through the 1948 war, ultimately living, leading to his ministry as a priest and opening schools and all that stuff. But so like something like that, and then I guess not be afraid to talk about it would be another thing I would say, because I think it's so easy and it's such a complicated and nuanced topic that people are afraid to say the wrong thing or they're afraid of being pegged as one thing or another based on what they say. But I think if we're not talking about it, then we're doing a disservice to the people who live there. And then I would just say, yeah, if you can, plan a trip to the

Jenna Streich: 25:54

Holy Land when it's safe to do so just because I think that is going to be so important, I don't know, but like, all of that still feels useless, right, because it's like, what do we do when there are, like children dying every day?

Joan Watson: 26:06

Yeah, yeah, I mean, prayer is the most powerful thing, but we are given. Yeah, that's our given, we're already assuming. So, thank you, and I was hoping you'd mention Blood Brothers, because I think if everybody could educate themselves on the complexity of this, I think that's a really important place to start. I'm gonna put you on the spot one last time as we wrap up and I'm gonna ask you is there a fun, fond memory when you look back at those those months in the Holy Land, just a fond story you'd like to tell our listeners, to kind of give them a glimpse at your time there?

Jenna Streich: 26:45

There's so many things I can say, but I think this is just a great example of like the type of people that call the Holy Land home. So when we first got there the first day we went into Bethlehem as a group and we were with our program leaders or whatever. Our program director took us to this little shop on just in between the Church of the Nativity and the Milk Grotto Church in Bethlehem and he introduced us to his friend, Jack, and Jack owns a store in Bethlehem. And he said if you're in Bethlehem and you ever need anything, come to Jack. Jack is great, Jack will take care of you. And so we met Jack that day and we would always be sure to go say hi to Jack whenever we were in Bethlehem.

Jenna Streich: 27:20

But then my family actually came to visit my mom and my brother did, and so of course, when we were in Bethlehem and they had while I was in class they went to the Church of the Nativity and then afterwards I met up with them and I took them to Jack's shop. And my mom she was just so funny I think she was like she was also kind of like a fish out of water being thrown into a foreign country.

Jenna Streich: 27:41

And I was like, just like, oh yeah, just like, walk up to the Church of the Nativity and find a guide, and she's like there'll be people there.

Joan Watson: 27:47

I can just do that I was like oh yeah, it'll be fine.

Jenna Streich: 27:48

And she's like, okay, I guess so, but anyway so. But I took my mom and my brother in there to meet Jack and also it's a good place to buy souvenirs and support the local community and he, just like on the spot, was like, do you want to learn how to carve? And my mom was like what? And he's like, come in the back, come in the back. And so he took my mom and my brother into this back room and he sat with them and worked with them as they carved Christmas ornaments. So like my mom made a little star and I forget what my brother made. But he was just like, oh, like you're here, you're Jenna's friends, like let's go carve some ornaments. And then he like, while you were doing that, he's like you haven't yet we're having lunch.

Jenna Streich: 28:22

And so he ordered falafel from F team which is the best falafel in Bethlehem. You should definitely go there. It's right off major square and he just like brought it over and we just like ate there with him and he was like all right, well, like come back, come back at some point, and it was just it's so that's not a very exciting story.

Jenna Streich: 28:40

No, it's a lovely story, it's a great example like, and Jack is my example of the people who call the Holy Land home. And he, when I was back last fall for the first time after having not been there in four years, I went to Jack's shop and I walked in and he remembered me and he said hello when he asked about all of these things. And it was just like those are the sort of people who are living there and those are the sort of people who bring so much life and so much hope and so much joy to a place where it can sometimes be really hard to see all of those things.

Joan Watson: 29:13

Well, we'll pray for Jack and Jack's family and Jack's community. Let's just remember the people in our lives that people dehumanize, and to always see the people, whether they're in our lives or they're talked about. Just remember that these are people and we're all sons and daughters of the most high God, and he loves each one of us, and so we should love as well. So, thank you, jenna. Thanks for being with us and shedding a little light on life in the Holy Land. This was fun, and listeners continue to pray. Just pray for a peaceful end to this very complex conflict, take time to educate yourself on what's happening, and we just continue to pray for peace in Jerusalem. God bless.